Re: [Spud] [ALU] Re: States in draft-trammell-plus-statefulness-00

"Christian Huitema" <huitema@huitema.net> Mon, 14 November 2016 19:01 UTC

Return-Path: <huitema@huitema.net>
X-Original-To: spud@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: spud@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E73531299AA for <spud@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:01:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.602
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nB0aEussigJY for <spud@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:01:42 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com (mx43-out1.antispamcloud.com [138.201.61.189]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E1B941299A9 for <spud@ietf.org>; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:01:41 -0800 (PST)
Received: from xsmtp31.mail2web.com ([168.144.250.234] helo=xsmtp11.mail2web.com) by mx43.antispamcloud.com with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1c6MVF-0002sS-99 for spud@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 20:01:32 +0100
Received: from [10.5.2.49] (helo=xmail11.myhosting.com) by xsmtp11.mail2web.com with esmtps (TLS-1.0:DHE_RSA_AES_256_CBC_SHA1:32) (Exim 4.63) (envelope-from <huitema@huitema.net>) id 1c6MV7-0003wh-86 for spud@ietf.org; Mon, 14 Nov 2016 14:01:05 -0500
Received: (qmail 25420 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2016 19:01:04 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO icebox) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[208.54.39.200]) (envelope-sender <huitema@huitema.net>) by xmail11.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for <ddolson@sandvine.com>; 14 Nov 2016 19:01:04 -0000
From: "Christian Huitema" <huitema@huitema.net>
To: "'Fossati, Thomas \(Nokia - GB\)'" <thomas.fossati@nokia.com>, "'Brian Trammell'" <ietf@trammell.ch>, "'Dave Dolson'" <ddolson@sandvine.com>
References: <E8355113905631478EFF04F5AA706E9831159645@wtl-exchp-2.sandvine.com> <835E355C-0AF1-4660-B0FF-8BEE0C54788D@trammell.ch> <03b101d23e9b$7c883540$75989fc0$@huitema.net> <D44FAB88.75D94%thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com>
In-Reply-To: <D44FAB88.75D94%thomas.fossati@alcatel-lucent.com>
Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:01:00 -0800
Message-ID: <013701d23ea9$71f87870$55e96950$@huitema.net>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0
Thread-Index: AQKf862m8oZQa9APzsImua+wBtT6LQEXHGdBAvEncUwBgY7ctZ8RG9Ng
Content-Language: en-us
X-Filter-ID: s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIVbU93hg6Kq00BjAzYBqWlUcW8ntawmIBRrYFzUH2lbvx1wTMkEUUoeb KIhkyzl2dNEAmMBmHDUmmY+3eqwn6k80HbLcIXRK+rCYHS2Pxr4sUvWQm1ERVuodk8O3ETzMD/Sl +YPTcpciItwmJjf3RtnaS++bgimGC/mr3XgFs+3cdcmtTcWSOKD5RASVzg27in97Vz6IRLbhBYyX 7lr6B6d5kYwBFjHSX1ySASMY7Q8kVWau65pVsnZkx/s3iU5HXZFVgpT1b21uZVckGp0ccOY/32e+ 5fVqy4sN42wuoCbdbNYJZHmTztvoh1m9SAwL4/i885J4uw2WezmviQauN2SLBDMrD7q/cJogwbqz suokd0uMbDf1yoqZkUeJni0+RQZIe8Pggnek1xH/TgvWD0MaKXvNWrRcSD72jROfhu6vZJ0Q4x+0 GOxZvoENDONKwZkjGlUCvU6ZAmJB8zrNH9DxX8G2bApANEDRnSX/sJx0Uf5/xO8dap3thvg9e/eV ioOoT5f9zNwjlArtXM+EHVJ52x4j7SJ9+yFYhxTTZdKAmJdDwLTy7ggkbtiREBmTEN9TLrF9l3It GfA/WrnALV46n/TYyQX4QewGgUaWBSqGlrtXw1c9IHjJjxHw61Bw8RquN6UIEUbDp4qQeYkcvTCl J+6wa7BDiaF6UX6W4Pbk
X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@mx99.antispamcloud.com
X-Originating-IP: 168.144.250.234
X-SpamExperts-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-SpamExperts-Username: 168.144.250.0/24
Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=168.144.250.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com
X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: unsure
X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.15)
X-Classification: unsure/combined
X-Recommended-Action: accept
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spud/PTVqfTDf1hNxfWM_nM94cP2FQ5g>
Cc: hildjj@cursive.net, mirja.kuehlewind@tik.ee.ethz.ch, spud@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Spud] [ALU] Re: States in draft-trammell-plus-statefulness-00
X-BeenThere: spud@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17
Precedence: list
List-Id: Session Protocol Underneath Datagrams <spud.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/spud>, <mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/spud/>
List-Post: <mailto:spud@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spud>, <mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 14 Nov 2016 19:01:51 -0000

On Monday, November 14, 2016 10:18 AM, Fossati, Thomas (Nokia - GB) wrote:

> Premise: I agree that PLUS should be properly separated from QUIC.
>
> I am concerned that making QUIC (standard) depend on PLUS (experimental)
> for this pretty essential function can be tricky.
>
> How do you think this should be handled?

Realistically, although I don't like it, I assume that middleboxes will just
start inspecting packets and recognizing QUIC. On the other hand, QUIC
specifies an "abrupt disconnect" packet that looks pretty much like what we
would want a "drop me" packet to do. Aligning PLUS with that one way or
another could be helpful.

-- Christian Huitema