[Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multipath/Mobility (was Questions based on draft-trammell-spud-req-00))
Toerless Eckert <eckert@cisco.com> Mon, 10 August 2015 18:44 UTC
Return-Path: <eckert@cisco.com>
X-Original-To: spud@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: spud@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1])
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 100EE1B29C7
for <spud@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:44:48 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -14.511
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.511 tagged_above=-999 required=5
tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1,
DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001,
T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44])
by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024)
with ESMTP id F0suwnUV9qbb for <spud@ietfa.amsl.com>;
Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:44:47 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78])
(using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits))
(No client certificate requested)
by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 127F01B29D9
for <spud@ietf.org>; Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:44:46 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple;
d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1382; q=dns/txt; s=iport;
t=1439232285; x=1440441885;
h=date:from:to:cc:subject:message-id:mime-version;
bh=pW/ydYxqIvFcDFtWUclOJZqrKB+TE32Jm+6LaumA2oY=;
b=Blf6sWilmN4GLHLbW9dP0IAPVNf1I++gzDQKl8V9DzJKDI/15aPy3OzG
oEEh+a/X2ewaDyzol0ExnEqvvHvBICZBx16Uq4kaRp8DPCCm3lExGGlUl
h50tvdnh3fm+9iVQWRWCSLiXFIi2/A+uzLOh7jaWsx3K4ji3nJhhh2tc5 E=;
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true
X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: A0AaBQB/8MhV/4ENJK1dgxuBPcU+gTg7EQEBAQEBAQGBCoQmKxM/PBoaBUkTiC7PcAEBAQEBAQQBAQEBAQEBARqQWoMfgRQFjUmHQm6LcgOBSYQlkCmDZiaCQIFeHjOCTAEBAQ
X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.15,647,1432598400"; d="scan'208";a="17450585"
Received: from alln-core-9.cisco.com ([173.36.13.129])
by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP; 10 Aug 2015 18:44:45 +0000
Received: from mcast-linux1.cisco.com (mcast-linux1.cisco.com [172.27.244.121])
by alln-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id t7AIiixi010000
(version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO);
Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:44:45 GMT
Received: from mcast-linux1.cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1])
by mcast-linux1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id t7AIiiiv016339;
Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:44:44 -0700
Received: (from eckert@localhost)
by mcast-linux1.cisco.com (8.13.8/8.13.8/Submit) id t7AIiipw016338;
Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:44:44 -0700
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 11:44:44 -0700
From: Toerless Eckert <eckert@cisco.com>
To: Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>
Message-ID: <20150810184444.GB16123@cisco.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
User-Agent: Mutt/1.4.2.2i
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/spud/XsF_CBSK67vU-O_NuaJ0VX42820>
Cc: spud@ietf.org
Subject: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multipath/Mobility (was
Questions based on draft-trammell-spud-req-00))
X-BeenThere: spud@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: Session Protocol Underneath Datagrams <spud.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/spud>,
<mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/spud/>
List-Post: <mailto:spud@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/spud>,
<mailto:spud-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2015 18:44:48 -0000
[another resend due to spud mailin list setup, sorry]
As a generic side thought based on Christians concern about privacy
(why would an app want to show a shared Tube-ID across multipath/mobile flows for example).
To me, the problem is best explained on the following workflow:
"Here is your new ID card".
"Why would i want to have an ID card, everybody who checks ID cards is evil"
"You do not have to show your ID card if you don't want to"
"Lets go to the bar"
"ID card please"
"Booze or anonymity... that's the question"
"Lets choose booze"
So, whats missing in SPUD (or any prior endpoint<->network) signaling is the
signaling element "If you do not show ID card, you will not get booze" or
"if you do not use a cross-subflow Tube-ID, your load-sharing, mobility or multipath
performance will suck or not work".
Using the same Tube-ID is just one example. This interaction really applies
to any possible signaling element: The anonymity freak will argue to his
death that he doesn't want to provide information to the network... unless
the network can persuade him that the benefit of showing outweights the
loss of anonymity.
This is primarily a question of creating a data-model of what the network can offer
and tie that to a data model for what to show to get it....
Cheers
Toerless
--
---
Toerless Eckert, eckert@cisco.com
- [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multipath/… Toerless Eckert
- [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multipath/… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multip… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multip… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multip… Ted Hardie
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multip… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multip… Christian Huitema
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multip… Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD (was: Re: Multip… Toerless Eckert
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD Daniel Kahn Gillmor
- Re: [Spud] Whats missing in SPUD Toerless Eckert