Re: [Spud] on trust and lying

I do think that we need a way to establish a trust relationship 
not only between the endpoints but also among the end points and the
middle boxes as well as among the middle boxes 

br
Salvatore

> On 25 Mar 2015, at 13:56, Eliot Lear <lear@cisco.com> wrote:
> 
> A comment was made at the microphone that middle boxes will lie to end
> hosts and end hosts will lie to middle boxes.  That is not strictly
> true, and we have an existence proof of when it is not: that is TCP. 
> The intended point of Joe's slide to map SPUD states to TCP wasn't just
> a simple example.  The behavior of TCP on the hosts can be observed by
> the middle box and based on that behavior the middlebox can make
> appropriate decisions.  The most classic example of this is simply
> blocking inbound SYNs to block opening of new connections.  New
> connections do not establish absent that first naked SYN.  Similarly,
> the network can assume that only connections that are already open will
> contain an ACK, knowing that a host will reject an unsolicited packet
> that contains that flag.  That three way handshake is in effect an
> implicit behavior contract between the end host and middle boxes.
> 
> Whatever SPUD becomes, it has to establish, at the very least, that
> implicit behavior contract for UDP.  Today it simply doesn't exist in
> the general sense, although there are may be a higher few protocols that
> allow for that.
> 
> Eliot
> 
> 
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