Return-Path: X-Original-To: ssh@mail2.ietf.org Delivered-To: ssh@mail2.ietf.org Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B94E5E2B48; Wed, 29 Apr 2026 11:16:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1777486574; bh=fLcL5+Xu+iB1MPC111KQCC7hVGyMRkKKpD7r3b0j+nM=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date; b=fp7XVkrLvq208eGTMwNDHbOW8FXFUsQzGvyBSw2PLeGHEDUnEjcFEEtmLyTdeFwIH i8H5b/eIwASGxbT5DFWMdTYY20cz96qE/SimqhNB9KW1iI1bh4GfV/1c6S2JXeCHi4 uHj0dQgTk/BKVjMA5vuEx0pY2OBINgF5QuJl6EkM= X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=neutral reason="invalid (unsupported algorithm ed25519-sha256)" header.d=josefsson.org header.b="za3W/xvs"; dkim=pass (2736-bit key) header.d=josefsson.org header.b="wzYZVCnY" Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jp565_u0yN6w; Wed, 29 Apr 2026 11:16:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uggla.sjd.se (uggla.sjd.se [IPv6:2001:9b1:8633::107]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange ECDHE (P-256) server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EFA19E5E231B; Wed, 29 Apr 2026 11:15:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=ed25519-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=josefsson.org; s=ed2303; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=HzrwIuy1GIlXuG7P3mxXgpT33Or1Pf7d0CHrclFFAOU=; t=1777486517; x=1778696117; b=za3W/xvsnW/Hkr1QLGrwO7cynfBBSToqrNAdxlVFrwJANjLi1r/4NlHbVgUjkWwcgWpoX/2n83Y jJDUiptyaCA==; DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=josefsson.org; s=rsa2303; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: References:In-Reply-To:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=HzrwIuy1GIlXuG7P3mxXgpT33Or1Pf7d0CHrclFFAOU=; t=1777486517; x=1778696117; b=wzYZVCnYzaKUUbPH66HBFaooUL037je8gvzoPwJ/JBPtTSpoi+Teyv2WfrBdqrbu359TgvDouy9 LRy/1XVJFSeMps6QFpe60emBzQTVz4yvtcMZIeiqX5YAeKzzpJU3pDXfa5ER3DnTT67J++xaLdt67 PV8u/bKH3CPrcVnndIOiLrQVhG2nXslXhfwENnUHwcf5Wyj7ciLuFDsiyn6ovFCaNWpJHunuE+VcS 9Ni1lGd83BsJ7VyZzYifBQBPM/VMfxo3wwm2eMhv3InZnAXd+Li91fqQz3ph8tFQkLJp/qz6TlEVs 57KopQV2EPwVz6bo7A7uZvlPwxWts0Ni0fzj11SdIfSY1Qy70PkayOoKX7fdM3BhkWDmGO0cie/+1 Y9r5t/hMUbG832vwWAYAxLfbeaTLNLjBNvn1hKtuc+TMDxTHf06DBnd78Ljmih9cco5k5XLBz; Received: from h-178-174-130-130.a498.priv.bahnhof.se ([178.174.130.130]:37304 helo=frallan) by uggla.sjd.se with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1wI9RM-004PsK-4a; Wed, 29 Apr 2026 18:15:16 +0000 From: Simon Josefsson To: Dennis Jackson In-Reply-To: <867cbc77-a08c-40d4-b665-75939eab065a@dennis-jackson.uk> (Dennis Jackson's message of "Wed, 29 Apr 2026 18:36:04 +0100") References: <68bc138c-ccfc-2d97-0f25-64271655c23b@mindrot.org> <461a8358-8bd8-4f45-f8f3-073f993fb18f@mindrot.org> <534410e1-5a26-f610-ba68-1f0595ab7a64@mindrot.org> <867cbc77-a08c-40d4-b665-75939eab065a@dennis-jackson.uk> OpenPGP: id=B1D2BD1375BECB784CF4F8C4D73CF638C53C06BE; url=https://josefsson.org/key-20190320.txt X-Hashcash: 1:23:260429:ssh@ietf.org::uYkWtHIOrLNFF+Lr:siv8 X-Hashcash: 1:23:260429:ietf=40dennis-jackson.uk@dmarc.ietf.org::0SIuopQ45BonFeiX:0HVeQ Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2026 20:16:09 +0200 Message-ID: <87bjf11vkm.fsf@josefsson.org> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Message-ID-Hash: OZZE2Z5L7NWEVFMRFN4UREGRQQFD24T3 X-Message-ID-Hash: OZZE2Z5L7NWEVFMRFN4UREGRQQFD24T3 X-MailFrom: simon@josefsson.org X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header CC: ssh@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6 Precedence: list Subject: =?utf-8?q?=5BSsh=5D_Re=3A_Supporting_pure_ML-DSA_as_hostkey_and_authkey?= List-Id: "The SSH mail list will allow discussions on improving aspects of the Secure Shell (SSH) protocol." Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Dennis Jackson writes: > On 29/04/2026 17:54, Damien Miller wrote: > >>> CA signatures frequently last years or decades. >>> > For signatures & public keys that we trust, yes, but we can and do > withdraw trust from ones which have become suspect much more quickly. > > There's no analogue operation for 'revoking' a past encryption to a > now-broken public key cryptosystem. That's why confidentiality matters > pretty much indefinitely, but authentication only matters until you > can ship an update to your clients. That's backwards. Updates to clients needs to be authenticated, otherwise anyone can send you a rogue update. Authenticated with what, you ask? Well, often a signature, and it may be a SSH signature (some projects are moving to use SSH signing for artifact protection). You can't have encryption between Alice and Bob without authentication, that's crypto 101. /Simon --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQNoBAEWCgMQFiEEo8ychwudMQq61M8vUXIrCP5HRaIFAmnySukUHHNpbW9uQGpv c2Vmc3Nvbi5vcmfCHCYAmDMEXJLOtBYJKwYBBAHaRw8BAQdACIcrZIvhrxDBkK9f V+QlTmXxo2naObDuGtw58YaxlOu0JVNpbW9uIEpvc2Vmc3NvbiA8c2ltb25Aam9z ZWZzc29uLm9yZz6IlgQTFggAPgIbAwULCQgHAgYVCAkKCwIEFgIDAQIeAQIXgBYh BLHSvRN1vst4TPT4xNc89jjFPAa+BQJp4fWRBQkOa+rdAAoJENc89jjFPAa+hWIA /1lQvrJeGlQq50lP6tm99D1zDy7J1tQ3ha4x0Jx7rkFTAP9hpUKuTvm6m1fXyiZV YZlu2+Id/Dq3CIAZvNF+XEr2BLgzBFySz4EWCSsGAQQB2kcPAQEHQOxTCIOaeXAx I2hIX4HK9bQTpNVei708oNr1Klm8qCGKiPUEGBYIACYCGwIWIQSx0r0Tdb7LeEz0 +MTXPPY4xTwGvgUCaeCW1wUJDmqLVgCBdiAEGRYIAB0WIQSjzJyHC50xCrrUzy9R cisI/kdFogUCXJLPgQAKCRBRcisI/kdFoqdMAQCgH45aseZgIrwKOvUOA9QfsmeE 8GZHYNuFHmM9FEQS6AD6A4x5aYvoY6lo98pgtw2HPDhmcCXFItjXCrV4A0GmJA4J ENc89jjFPAa+s7AA+gIIHpBApDpcDj1sKhzDngmpvwQf0VkHme6s+EG7qSgpAQDe /XMrU0c0Pa3ji85cMqZhvzJOFI/soe662lzL0QY3Bbg4BFySz2oSCisGAQQBl1UB BQEBB0AxlRumDW6nZY7A+VCfek9VpEx6PJmdJyYPt3lNHMd6HAMBCAeIfgQYFggA JgIbDBYhBLHSvRN1vst4TPT4xNc89jjFPAa+BQJp4JbXBQkOaottAAoJENc89jjF PAa+RNUA/2faQO/nFT06E+MlhlQdo/0chlQXC5TZMPTVvVBFwoLOAP9xLJK0ow5E jTzYJB4K810AL/Iv6PEOAEgA4cPTHVlbCQAKCRBRcisI/kdFotNTAQCDBSw4TqoC 6kIoOp7AOkVh8ny2XfTbt9rvTacIR0uRwgEAsYl810UF7tfgGAU5I4R3EU02aot2 xbXmE7D8vy2ZYQs= =WH/C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--