Return-Path: X-Original-To: stackevo-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: stackevo-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41A481A883C; Thu, 17 Dec 2015 02:18:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oastSy9obVO1; Thu, 17 Dec 2015 02:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-out5.uio.no (mail-out5.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 244921A8845; Thu, 17 Dec 2015 02:18:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-mx2.uio.no ([129.240.10.30]) by mail-out5.uio.no with esmtp (Exim 4.80.1) (envelope-from ) id 1a9Vdu-0004Wz-Ol; Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:18:38 +0100 Received: from boomerang.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.135]) by mail-mx2.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) user michawe (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1a9Vdu-0000WF-D1; Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:18:38 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A6835717@Hydra.office.hd> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 11:18:36 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <9EB6564A-45B0-4164-8D78-0737BBAA0C9F@ifi.uio.no> References: <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A682F744@Hydra.office.hd> <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A683460E@Hydra.office.hd> <9E220CD1-5C20-4568-8A8D-6461C317BE11@ifi.uio.no> <82AB329A76E2484D934BBCA77E9F5249A6835717@Hydra.office.hd> To: Dirk Kutscher X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-UiO-SPF-Received: X-UiO-Ratelimit-Test: rcpts/h 9 msgs/h 2 sum rcpts/h 13 sum msgs/h 3 total rcpts 36553 max rcpts/h 54 ratelimit 0 X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 5661BA6D88474325754B7997327D9A6E187F0C4F X-UiO-SPAM-Test: remote_host: 129.240.68.135 spam_score: -49 maxlevel 80 minaction 2 bait 0 mail/h: 2 total 8812 max/h 17 blacklist 0 greylist 0 ratelimit 0 Archived-At: Cc: "icnrg@irtf.org" , gaia , "stackevo-discuss@iab.org" , Jon Crowcroft , "5gangip@ietf.org" <5gangip@ietf.org>, "marnew@iab.org" , "dtn-interest@irtf.org" Subject: Re: [Stackevo-discuss] [gaia] 5G: It's the Network, Stupid X-BeenThere: stackevo-discuss@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: IP Stack Evolution Discussion List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 10:18:43 -0000 > On 17 Dec 2015, at 11:10, Dirk Kutscher = wrote: >=20 >>> Regarding security, unless we want to introduce =E2=80=9Ctrusted = middleboxes=E2=80=9D, >>=20 >> Why not? >=20 > No e2e security. >=20 > That may be OK for some use cases, like IoT or home GWs, but could be = less convincing for accessing public network services -- for example, if = you extend the network with multiple hops of device-to-device = communication, data mules etc. Hm.... just because you trust them to do certain tasks for you doesn't = mean you trust them with everything? We trust routers to forward our = data and can even set the DSCP for them (in theory - yes i know the = rtcweb/DSCP story and DART) And you can still have e.g. e2e encryption and e2e authentication on = top, right? So what is the real trust problem here?