Re: [stir] Proposal for update of erratum #6519 - ppt syntax

Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org> Fri, 23 April 2021 17:05 UTC

Return-Path: <marc@petit-huguenin.org>
X-Original-To: stir@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: stir@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C23673A16D1 for <stir@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 10:05:52 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.902
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IHNoxGIFZXLL for <stir@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 10:05:49 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from implementers.org (implementers.org [IPv6:2001:4b98:dc0:45:216:3eff:fe7f:7abd]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6D613A16CD for <stir@ietf.org>; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 10:05:48 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:d250:99ff:fedf:93cd] (unknown [IPv6:2601:648:8400:8e7d:d250:99ff:fedf:93cd]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits) client-signature RSA-PSS (2048 bits)) (Client CN "Marc Petit-Huguenin", Issuer "implementers.org" (verified OK)) by implementers.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B773FAE21E; Fri, 23 Apr 2021 19:05:46 +0200 (CEST)
To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>, Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
Cc: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>, IETF STIR Mail List <stir@ietf.org>
References: <42e964d3-2a16-660b-f8b4-fd9daedad115@petit-huguenin.org> <CAD5OKxt2ZC+HZGL1XXZZV7O-shteL_dHLtrb52Dc=rjkr23-Mw@mail.gmail.com> <AM0PR07MB3860150680CE215BE0BB52B493469@AM0PR07MB3860.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAD5OKxtNO8inv_K4ZxefHO1XCHV2QtfYo2e+MFF7cvRobFSjkQ@mail.gmail.com> <AM0PR07MB38605A8F3ACFA67792C4545293469@AM0PR07MB3860.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <CAD5OKxtA_T0nBhZ9GJcF3vOLxj3FjsMq+AiAOAawVnKx3Fff2A@mail.gmail.com> <AM0PR07MB3860949BF3B90DA1617244E593469@AM0PR07MB3860.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <4936d7d9-6dd7-0408-4ce8-54b99346ac40@petit-huguenin.org> <AM0PR07MB386080E238B7EBAB26897FED93459@AM0PR07MB3860.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <fe318be6-3f55-3cd7-2507-4e5e68b0de02@petit-huguenin.org> <af3e632f-d43e-c198-f7f9-88abc14f1643@petit-huguenin.org> <AM0PR07MB3860B66CA9A217240DBB704093459@AM0PR07MB3860.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com> <baeb8960-6d8f-c0da-2c8c-2c9eb7c4253d@petit-huguenin.org> <AM0PR07MB3860464E90DDE68A220FBF7E93459@AM0PR07MB3860.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org>
Message-ID: <4f75e678-d146-3b0b-4f2d-ef5be61865d4@petit-huguenin.org>
Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 10:05:45 -0700
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.9.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <AM0PR07MB3860464E90DDE68A220FBF7E93459@AM0PR07MB3860.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/stir/0joTFhYknIpQ5hutoQ2enG2-UpM>
Subject: Re: [stir] Proposal for update of erratum #6519 - ppt syntax
X-BeenThere: stir@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Secure Telephone Identity Revisited <stir.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/stir>, <mailto:stir-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/stir/>
List-Post: <mailto:stir@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:stir-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/stir>, <mailto:stir-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Apr 2021 17:05:53 -0000

On 4/23/21 10:03 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
> 
>> And running code...
>>
>> That was a genuine question -- the language we use drive the way we think.  Handcoding a parser as a state machine vs using a LL(1) parser vs an LR parser introduce different difficulties when
>> writing them, and I was wondering if your insistence was because of that.
> 
> I have many years of parser implementation experience. Having said that, this specific issue is not related to something I am currently implementing, but more in general.
> 
> But, if I am the only one having that issue, I am fine to drop it in order to make progress. I guess you'd agree that SIP is not the first choice if looking for clean and proper syntax :)

Emphatically yes.

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Christer
> 
> 
> On 4/23/21 9:49 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>> I didn't know the rules in IETF were "we believe in rough consensus - or in whoever has the most SIP implementations".
>>
>> (FWIW, I do have some SIP implementation experience myself.)
>>
>> However, I have not objected to your proposal. My issue is whether we really need to define a new syntax for a string value, that doesn't exist anywhere else.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Christer
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org>
>> Sent: perjantai 23. huhtikuuta 2021 19.42
>> To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>om>; Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
>> Cc: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>om>; IETF STIR Mail List <stir@ietf.org>
>> Subject: Re: [stir] Proposal for update of erratum #6519 - ppt syntax
>>
>> I have to ask:  What, in your implementation of STIR, made you so confident that what you propose is better than what Roman (I assume also a SIP implementer) and I (a 5 times SIP implementer and one time STIR implementer) propose?
>>
>> On 4/23/21 9:34 AM, Marc Petit-Huguenin wrote:
>>> On 4/23/21 9:27 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> With quoted string we wouldn't need such text.
>>>
>>> You would need an even longer text that explains that a quoted-string that contains characters that are not in the definition of token -- excepted for the initial quote and the last quote -- is invalid.  You would also need to explain that, contrary to the rule for a quoted-string, the string is case-insensitive.  And you still have to explain that the string needs to be normalized before copy in the JSON document.
>>>
>>> So many words.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Christer
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Marc Petit-Huguenin <marc@petit-huguenin.org>
>>>> Sent: torstai 22. huhtikuuta 2021 21.07
>>>> To: Christer Holmberg <christer.holmberg@ericsson.com>om>; Roman Shpount <roman@telurix.com>
>>>> Cc: Russ Housley <housley@vigilsec.com>om>; IETF STIR Mail List <stir@ietf.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [stir] Proposal for update of erratum #6519 - ppt syntax
>>>>
>>>> On 4/22/21 11:02 AM, Christer Holmberg wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Another thing. Since we are now using DQUOTE, won't those become part of the ppt value? I guess we don't want that.
>>>>
>>>> The text I proposed is taking care of that:
>>>>
>>>> ...a quoted value whose unquoted part is equivalent to the token in the "ppt" parameter, normalized to contain only lowercase characters...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Christer
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
> 


-- 
Marc Petit-Huguenin
Email: marc@petit-huguenin.org
Blog: https://marc.petit-huguenin.org
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/petithug