Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers?
Stephen Bailey <steph@cs.uchicago.edu> Tue, 30 March 2010 15:04 UTC
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From: Stephen Bailey <steph@cs.uchicago.edu>
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Subject: Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers?
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Despite the fact that I worked on the draft, I always thought markers were silly and would be proven so over time. Good to hear I was actually right for once! Steph On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 7:49 AM, Mark S. Edwards <marke@muttsnuts.com> wrote: > Paul, > > That's pretty much my recollection, too. > > One of those things that was thought to be a reasonable solution to a > foreseeable change in the technology. In the end, the technology found a > different solution. > > They were fascinating presentations, though. > > Mark. > > At 15:22 30/03/2010, Paul Koning wrote: > > Thanks Asgeir. > > As I recall, the original idea behind markers is to make it possible to > build 10G HBAs that can run at wire speed, which was believed to be > impossible otherwise. > > The subsequent record indicates that this was in fact not the case; 10G HBAs > are feasible and have been built without resorting to markers. There is no > other reason for using markers. So if the one reason that they were thought > to be needed in fact turned out not to be real, the obvious thing to do is > to remove the unused complications from the spec. > > I suppose one could argue that, placed in an appendix and “optional to > implement” they do no harm. That’s a fair point. If there is still a > chance that they will turn out to be needed in the future we may want to go > that way. I personally would bet against that chance. > > paul > > From: Asgeir Eiriksson [ mailto:asgeir_eiriksson@hotmail.com] > Sent: Tuesday, March 30, 2010 9:24 AM > To: Paul Koning; cbm@chadalapaka.com; marke@muttsnuts.com; storm@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? > > Hello Paul, > > The Chelsio RNIC do support the marker feature, but as far as I know the > feature > has never been used in the field, and it isn't supported by all RNIC > implementations. > > I periodically ask our AE and developers about this feature and so far the > answer > is that no one uses it, and no one is asking for it (4 years of data at this > point). > > Regards, > > Asgeir Eiriksson > CTO > Chelsio Communications Inc. > >> Date: Mon, 29 Mar 2010 21:01:49 -0400 >> From: Paul_Koning@Dell.com >> To: cbm@chadalapaka.com; marke@muttsnuts.com; storm@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? >> >> I sure would like markers to go away. Rumors of their use are somewhat >> interesting, but substantiated data would be more so. >> >> paul >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: storm-bounces@ietf.org [ mailto:storm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> > Of Mallikarjun Chadalapaka >> > Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 8:33 PM >> > To: 'Mark S. Edwards'; storm@ietf.org >> > Subject: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? >> > >> > Just to clarify... >> > >> > > On another removal topic, I seem to recall that Mallikarjun also >> said >> > > that he was removing markers. >> > >> > I had only said that it's one of the items I had heard prior requests >> > on >> > (that it be removed). Thanks for initiating the list discussion >> > though! >> > >> > > but I do wonder if this will affect any HBA implementations ? >> > >> > Good question, I don't know. HBA vendors, especially iSCSI/iSER/RNIC >> > "roto-tilled" implementations, please chime in. >> > >> > >> > Mallikarjun >> > >> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: storm-bounces@ietf.org [ mailto:storm-bounces@ietf.org] On >> > Behalf Of >> > Mark >> > > S. Edwards >> > > Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 6:56 AM >> > > To: storm@ietf.org >> > > Subject: Re: [storm] Draft minutes from Anaheim >> > > >> > > Regarding the feature removal discussion, can I add SLP to the list >> ? >> > > >> > > The RFC 3721 states >> > > >> > > "iSCSI equipment that >> > > need discovery functions beyond SendTargets should at least >> > > implement SLP, and then consider iSNS when extended discovery >> > > management capabilities are required such as in larger >> storage >> > > networks. It should be noted that since iSNS will support >> > SLP, >> > > iSNS can be used to help manage the discovery information >> > returned >> > > by SLP." >> > > >> > > The implication is that targets and initiators should expect to find >> > > support for SLP before considering iSNS. >> > > >> > > I remember our first iSCSI appliance and we spent ages trying to get >> > > SLP working because it the above wording effectively made it >> > > mandatory. SLP turned out to be a complete bust and was effectively >> > > killed off when Microsoft refused to support it in their initiator >> > > and in their target logo tests. >> > > >> > > The result is that today I doubt you could find a target or >> initiator >> > > out there supporting SLP. >> > > >> > > For anybody that does still implement SLP we could change the >> wording >> > > for SLP a little to remove the implied hierarchy, or just admit that >> > > running code has created IETF consensus. >> > > >> > > >> > > On another removal topic, I seem to recall that Mallikarjun also >> said >> > > that he was removing markers. I don't particularly object to this >> > > but I do wonder if this will affect any HBA implementations ? >> > > >> > > Regards, >> > > >> > > Mark. >> > > >> > > >> > > At 06:59 27/03/2010, Black_David@emc.com wrote: >> > > >Draft minutes are attached - please comment, correct, etc. >> > > > >> > > >Also, in the absence of objection on this mailing list, decisions >> > > >recorded in the minutes are considered to be the rough consensus of >> > > >this WG, *except* that two issues were identified as sufficiently >> > > >important to discuss separately on the list (see separate >> messages): >> > > > - Text negotiation key for new iSCSI features (discussion >> > > > in progress) >> > > > - Features to remove from iSCSI (discussion to be started) >> > > > >> > > >Many thanks to Craig Carlson for taking notes during the meeting. >> > > > >> > > >Thanks, >> > > >--David >> > > >---------------------------------------------------- >> > > >David L. Black, Distinguished Engineer >> > > >EMC Corporation, 176 South St., Hopkinton, MA 01748 >> > > >+1 (508) 293-7953 FAX: +1 (508) 293-7786 >> > > >black_david@emc.com Mobile: +1 (978) 394-7754 >> > > >---------------------------------------------------- >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >_______________________________________________ >> > > >storm mailing list >> > > >storm@ietf.org >> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/storm >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > storm mailing list >> > > storm@ietf.org >> > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/storm >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > storm mailing list >> > storm@ietf.org >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/storm >> _______________________________________________ >> storm mailing list >> storm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/storm > ________________________________ > Hotmail is redefining busy with tools for the New Busy. Get more from your > inbox. Sign up now. > > _______________________________________________ > storm mailing list > storm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/storm > >
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Asgeir Eiriksson
- [storm] Draft minutes from Anaheim Black_David
- Re: [storm] Draft minutes from Anaheim Mark S. Edwards
- Re: [storm] Draft minutes from Anaheim Knight, Frederick
- [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Mallikarjun Chadalapaka
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Paul Koning
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Paul Koning
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Mark S. Edwards
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Stephen Bailey
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Asgeir Eiriksson
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Mark S. Edwards
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Mallikarjun Chadalapaka
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? William Stouder-Studenmund
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Julian Satran
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Asgeir Eiriksson
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Caitlin Bestler
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Pat Thaler
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Mark Bakke (mbakke)
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? David Harrington
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Mallikarjun Chadalapaka
- Re: [storm] Removing iSCSI Markers? Black_David
- [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? Black_David
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? Mark S. Edwards
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? david.black
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? Mark S. Edwards
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? David Harrington
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? Mallikarjun Chadalapaka
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? David Harrington
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? Mallikarjun Chadalapaka
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? David Harrington
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? Mallikarjun Chadalapaka
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? Mark S. Edwards
- Re: [storm] iSCSI feature removal: SLP ? David Harrington