Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248bis-05
Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im> Thu, 28 April 2016 18:47 UTC
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To: Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com>
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From: Peter Saint-Andre <stpeter@stpeter.im>
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Date: Thu, 28 Apr 2016 12:47:11 -0600
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Cc: stox@ietf.org, draft-ietf-stox-7248bis.all@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248bis-05
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I just submitted -08 to address this issue (and clean up some related text and examples). On 4/28/16 10:00 AM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: > Good point. I think "notification dialog" sounds right. I'm trying to avoid the term "subscription"... > > Sent from mobile, might be terse > >> On Apr 28, 2016, at 8:19 AM, Ben Campbell <ben@nostrum.com> wrote: >> >>> On 28 Apr 2016, at 9:13, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >>> >>>> On 3/20/16 4:45 PM, Peter Saint-Andre wrote: >>>> A further thought... >>>> >>>> On 09/28/2015 09:32 PM, Ben Campbell wrote: >>>>>> On 28 Sep 2015, at 21:39, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> On 9/24/15 11:55 AM, Ben Campbell wrote: >>>> >>>> <snip/> >>>> >>>>>>>>> Also, how does this violate the SIP semantic? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There's a mismatch in the meaning of subscribe. Treating a SIP >>>>>>>> subscription as if it were long-lived means the gateway follows the >>>>>>>> XMPP subscription model, not the SIP subscription model. A gateway >>>>>>>> implementer needs to choose which model to honor, and if it chooses >>>>>>>> the XMPP model then it's not honoring the SIP model (and vice-versa). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think this depends on the resolution to the previous comment, but I >>>>>>> would say that if the protoocl behavior expectations of the SIP >>>>>>> subscriber are met, the semantic has not been violated. >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe. :-) >>>>>> >>>>>> It still seems to me that the gateway is enforcing one model or the >>>>>> other. Perhaps "violate" is a strong word in this context, though. >>>>> >>>>> I think we may be reading too much into the "ephemeral" subscription >>>>> model, while still trying to think of an xmpp subscription and a SIP >>>>> subscription of modeling the same thing. Both XMPP and SIP have an >>>>> ephemeral component and a long-lived component. In XMPP, the >>>>> subscription is long lived, and the presence session is relatively >>>>> ephemeral. In SIP, the authorization policy, and the presence of an >>>>> entity on a contact list are long lived, and the subscription is ephemeral. >>>>> >>>>> So if we think of an XMPP subscription as equivalent to SIP subscriber >>>>> authorization, and an XMPP presence session as equivalent to a SIP >>>>> subscription, I think we can avoid violence to the assumptions of either >>>>> side. >>>> >>>> That too is helpful toward a better description of the mismatch in >>>> models. >>> >>> I propose to add the following paragraph to the introduction: >>> >>> Although specifications for both SIP and XMPP use the term >>> "subscription", the term is employed in different ways. In SIP, a >>> "subscription" is the mechanism whereby a subscriber requests >>> presence notifications from the contact over a relatively short >>> period of time, renewed as necessary to keep receiving presence >>> notifications. By contrast, in XMPP a "subscription" is essentially >>> shorthand for a long-lived presence authorization. To prevent >>> confusion, this document uses the term "notification request" for >>> SIP subscriptions and the term "presence authorization" for XMPP >>> subscriptions. >> >> Hi Peter, >> >> I think this is on the right track. But I'm afraid SIP people might confuse "notification request" with "NOTIFY request", i.e. the NOTIFY message itself. >> >> To put things is SIP terms, would "subscription dialog" or "notification dialog" work? (Or maybe just "dialog"?) >> >>> Then modify the rest of the document accordingly. >>> >>> I started making these changes last night and will post a revised I-D either today or tomorrow. >>> >>> Peter
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248bis-05 Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Saúl Ibarra Corretgé
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Ben Campbell
- Re: [Stox] AD Evaluation of draft-ietf-stox-7248b… Peter Saint-Andre