Re: [Stox] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-stox-im-12: (with COMMENT)

Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <peter@andyet.net> Thu, 05 March 2015 17:45 UTC

Return-Path: <peter@andyet.net>
X-Original-To: expand-draft-ietf-stox-im.all@virtual.ietf.org
Delivered-To: stox@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix, from userid 65534) id E4D191A1EF1; Thu, 5 Mar 2015 09:45:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-stox-im.all@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: xfilter-draft-ietf-stox-im.all@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C83DD1A1BD9 for <xfilter-draft-ietf-stox-im.all@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Mar 2015 09:45:08 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.601
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PEPLFegVDXxg for <xfilter-draft-ietf-stox-im.all@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 5 Mar 2015 09:45:07 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail-ie0-f171.google.com (mail-ie0-f171.google.com [209.85.223.171]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B84011A1EF1 for <draft-ietf-stox-im.all@ietf.org>; Thu, 5 Mar 2015 09:45:05 -0800 (PST)
Received: by iecvy18 with SMTP id vy18so14464692iec.1 for <draft-ietf-stox-im.all@ietf.org>; Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:45:05 -0800 (PST)
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:message-id:date:from:user-agent:mime-version:to :cc:subject:references:in-reply-to:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=WP4nGtEmbMzo8ieDolANtYtZeP7326EVAWqi8Xfu+7M=; b=jEqYE+JEUMmwykF7q2MkYYVKvSorjFU0Th4oekyQpumzOa9yYskLtF/15CO/wttmTn EXXEjlg0m9M9OtH2bYBjs+p9wxY6Ge9CkhJd/XmirYNF2oB4UeWLXuKg5cXzWJRyEH3Y mRYdOYrv0vyuRzQqaO3KaGKdj39pOWM5QGwHt9m5ad1ThPMLFy+fgJWxRBVNSBZQydMp VPGwOdndT6mBzTTFYiqPLb854NjY4fCHmFY6eh9FJfktUQEaXhV7Z6X1pE/0UZrBv9JS 5juov6aWY1Jktj4R5hN2g6qEnneooaB/nepcnCIk89A2zreJT4BgNkNIHorCHUKXKE6x Fagg==
X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQneGonkw6vt2oOpv1k1uEgfNp7iiG6OW6FyFG6q+mU7OeDen268CO9uvrSBWKcG/UCztK/0
X-Received: by 10.50.142.38 with SMTP id rt6mr21997648igb.39.1425577504953; Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:45:04 -0800 (PST)
Received: from aither.local (c-73-34-202-214.hsd1.co.comcast.net. [73.34.202.214]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id s10sm5426595igr.2.2015.03.05.09.45.03 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 05 Mar 2015 09:45:04 -0800 (PST)
Message-ID: <54F8961F.8090104@andyet.net>
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 10:45:03 -0700
From: Peter Saint-Andre - &yet <peter@andyet.net>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.5.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>
References: <20150305051119.13941.30043.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <54F88403.1000204@andyet.net> <CAKKJt-e75tZYUHa0FLGyQgu49VABYFj1h+1mmB0+ofvHf0K-Rw@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAKKJt-e75tZYUHa0FLGyQgu49VABYFj1h+1mmB0+ofvHf0K-Rw@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/stox/yTq00UA2xGS8r0ayJeg92rfOMHk>
Cc: stox@ietf.org, yana@jitsi.org, draft-ietf-stox-im.all@ietf.org, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, stox-chairs@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Stox] Spencer Dawkins' No Objection on draft-ietf-stox-im-12: (with COMMENT)
X-BeenThere: stox@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: SIP-TO-XMPP Working Group discussion list <stox.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/stox>, <mailto:stox-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/stox/>
List-Post: <mailto:stox@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:stox-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/stox>, <mailto:stox-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 05 Mar 2015 17:45:09 -0000

On 3/5/15 10:28 AM, Spencer Dawkins at IETF wrote:
> Hi, Peter,
>
> On Thu, Mar 5, 2015 at 10:27 AM, Peter Saint-Andre - &yet
> <peter@andyet.net <mailto:peter@andyet.net>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Spencer, thanks for the review. Comments inline.
>
>     On 3/4/15 10:11 PM, Spencer Dawkins wrote:
>
>         Spencer Dawkins has entered the following ballot position for
>         draft-ietf-stox-im-12: No Objection
>
>         When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply
>         to all
>         email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to
>         cut this
>         introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
>         Please refer to
>         http://www.ietf.org/iesg/__statement/discuss-criteria.__html
>         <http://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html>
>         for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
>         The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>         http://datatracker.ietf.org/__doc/draft-ietf-stox-im/
>         <http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-stox-im/>
>
>
>
>         ------------------------------__------------------------------__----------
>         COMMENT:
>         ------------------------------__------------------------------__----------
>
>         I'm glad to see these specifications moving forward. Thanks for
>         that.
>
>         I have a couple of you-need-smarter-ADs questions. As prologue,
>         please
>         remember I have a decent understanding of SIP, an indecent
>         understanding
>         of SIMPLE, and mostly, I just stare uncomprehendingly when I see raw
>         XMPP.
>
>         It did not jump out at me when reading this specification,
>         whether there
>         is any assurance to a sender on one side of the gateway that a
>         message
>         was delivered successfully to a receiver on the other side of the
>         gateway.
>
>
>     Assurance is a slippery thing. :-)
>
>     In XMPP we do have a way to communicate delivery receipts end-to-end
>     <http://xmpp.org/extensions/__xep-0184.html
>     <http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0184.html>> but that's an extension
>     to the core specs. Given that MSRP has a similar mechanism for
>     session mode messaging, we talk about that in draft-ietf-stox-chat
>     instead of draft-ietf-stox-im.
>
>
> I think I understood that. I was just thinking it might be good to say
> something like "IMs don't return an indication of success or failure,
> and if you need that, you want to use chat instead".

That sounds reasonable.

The XMPP method can be used for single instant messages, but as far as I 
understand it there's no similar method for page mode messaging in SIP, 
only session mode messaging in MSRP (so it wouldn't be end-to-end for 
single instant messages).

Peter

-- 
Peter Saint-Andre
https://andyet.com/