Re: [ledbat] list of reasons for needing multiple TCP connections

Richard Bennett <richard@bennett.com> Tue, 02 December 2008 03:06 UTC

Return-Path: <ledbat-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tana-archive@ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tana-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03EA3A6AA7; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:06:50 -0800 (PST)
X-Original-To: ledbat@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: ledbat@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C1DD3A6AA7 for <ledbat@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:06:49 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.025
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.025 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.239, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, WHOIS_DMNBYPROXY=0.478]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EVh2uyomuz4F for <ledbat@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:06:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: from outbound-mail-301.bluehost.com (outbound-mail-301.bluehost.com [67.222.53.8]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with SMTP id 350473A68BA for <ledbat@ietf.org>; Mon, 1 Dec 2008 19:06:48 -0800 (PST)
Received: (qmail 5477 invoked by uid 0); 2 Dec 2008 03:05:28 -0000
Received: from unknown (HELO host46.hostmonster.com) (74.220.202.46) by outboundproxy6.bluehost.com with SMTP; 2 Dec 2008 03:05:28 -0000
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=default; d=bennett.com; h=Received:Message-ID:Date:From:Organization:User-Agent:MIME-Version:To:CC:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:Content-Type:X-Identified-User; b=MPBUhEOCtrDMiNbciBY4fUBC3WzDyNALhUAbtgfihxwBMilJYfreGL+gG490fnKWekHrkcdishqlJTurwyXM+gNN98gPCbjiUQEP/Dri4RAI0bPN7UT94uqt5GjfT1Y+;
Received: from adsl-69-107-2-248.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net ([69.107.2.248] helo=[192.168.1.4]) by host46.hostmonster.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from <richard@bennett.com>) id 1L7Laz-000805-Bp; Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:06:41 -0700
Message-ID: <4934A642.7010005@bennett.com>
Date: Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:06:42 -0800
From: Richard Bennett <richard@bennett.com>
Organization: Network Strategies
User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.18 (X11/20081119)
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Robb Topolski <robb@funchords.com>
References: <4925BDEE.6090101@isi.edu> <8c99930d0811201206yb0ef259v28c361438cb14773@mail.gmail.com> <DC2CEB0C-4C70-42CD-8ADE-AFF4E45B1915@shlang.com> <C3E8A5B2-16BE-47FD-9DD9-5AFCBA6BEBED@nokia.com> <492F27F3.3020309@bennett.com> <3efc39a60812011438s71066079s4b467eab43d7a998@mail.gmail.com> <49346C79.8090308@bennett.com> <3efc39a60812011527s361af2ben9a333f5f92bfa1cc@mail.gmail.com> <493474B4.40607@bennett.com> <3efc39a60812011846q61469f5cle3bc5747e507300d@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <3efc39a60812011846q61469f5cle3bc5747e507300d@mail.gmail.com>
X-Identified-User: {842:host46.hostmonster.com:bennett1:bennett.com} {sentby:smtp auth 69.107.2.248 authed with richard@bennett.com}
Cc: "ledbat@ietf.org" <ledbat@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ledbat] list of reasons for needing multiple TCP connections
X-BeenThere: ledbat@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: Mailing list of the LEDBAT WG <ledbat.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ledbat>, <mailto:ledbat-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/pipermail/ledbat>
List-Post: <mailto:ledbat@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:ledbat-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ledbat>, <mailto:ledbat-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1293412943=="
Sender: ledbat-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: ledbat-bounces@ietf.org

Actually, this article in DSL Reports started the recent discussion 
about BitTorrent over UDP:

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-UDP-uTorrent-Takes-Aim-At-Throttling-99366

The title is: "New UDP uTorrent Takes Aim At Throttling". The author, 
Karl Bode, is aware that UDP is one of the methods that P2P programmers 
have discussed over the years for avoiding traffic shaping. There's 
nothing particularly obscene about attempting to work through the 
implications of trade-offs; this is what engineers do.

Several people have objected to the implication that the sole purpose of 
making UDP the default transport was management evasion, and I'll 
correct that notion in a follow-up piece. That being said, there are 
still important issues to explore in relation to the Internet 
infrastructure, for "whoever designs it."

RB

Robb Topolski wrote:
>
>     Setting an expiration period of 5 minutes for UDP entries in a NAT
>     table will certainly kill UTP. Is that what you really want, Robb?
>
>
> Don't kill the messenger, Richard.  I'd love to tell you that it takes 
> 180 seconds, but it simply doesn't. Whoever designed it decides It 
> takes 300. 
>
>     The mapping entries have to be kept around as long as there's any
>     likelihood of traffic coming in for them, which can be a very long
>     time for P2P.
>
>
> How long, Richard? 
>
>     A little more tech and a little less snark would actually be
>     beneficial.
>
>
> Was that for me?  Or, were are you quoting today's reviews of your 
> article?
>
> http://gigaom.com/2008/12/01/bittorrent-at-war-with-voip-hardly/
>
> http://torrentfreak.com/will-utorrent-really-kill-the-internet-081201/
>
> http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/12/01/bittorrent-register-report-protocol-change-utter-nonsense
>
> http://icrontic.com/articles/will-bittorrents-switch-to-udp-kill-the-internet
>
> http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/UDP-BitTorrent-Will-Destroy-The-Interwebs-99400   
>
>
>
>
> Robb
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2008 at 3:35 PM, Richard Bennett <richard@bennett.com 
> <mailto:richard@bennett.com>> wrote:
>
>     Setting an expiration period of 5 minutes for UDP entries in a NAT
>     table will certainly kill UTP. Is that what you really want, Robb?
>     The mapping entries have to be kept around as long as there's any
>     likelihood of traffic coming in for them, which can be a very long
>     time for P2P.
>
>     A little more tech and a little less snark would actually be
>     beneficial.
>
>
>
> -- 
> Robb Topolski (robb@funchords.com <mailto:robb@funchords.com>)
> Hillsboro, Oregon USA
> http://www.funchords.com/
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> ledbat mailing list
> ledbat@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ledbat
>   

-- 
Richard Bennett

_______________________________________________
ledbat mailing list
ledbat@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ledbat