Re: [tao-discuss] New Version of the Tao of the IETF

Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com> Fri, 04 October 2019 15:51 UTC

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From: Kathleen Moriarty <kathleen.moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 04 Oct 2019 11:50:53 -0400
Message-ID: <CAHbuEH7Upbg3CPOt6yp=w3eMfWZSGxYWnQdYjimqPgA_6-yBKg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
Cc: Corinne Cath <corinnecath@gmail.com>, Niels ten Oever <mail@nielstenoever.net>, Greg Wood <wood@isoc.org>, tao-discuss@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [tao-discuss] New Version of the Tao of the IETF
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I am fine with the suggested edits and following Adrian's guidance.

Bets regards,
Kathleen

On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 5:37 AM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:

> I just noticed I wrote…
>
>
>
> > I would suggest that the Tao explicitly says what it means.
>
>
>
> Shockingly poor use of English!
>
>
>
> I meant…
>
> I would suggest that the Tao should say explicitly what it means.
>
>
>
> Best,
>
> Adrian
>
>
>
> *From:* Corinne Cath <corinnecath@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* 04 October 2019 03:42
> *To:* adrian@olddog.co.uk
> *Cc:* Niels ten Oever <mail@nielstenoever.net>; Kathleen Moriarty <
> Kathleen.Moriarty.ietf@gmail.com>; Greg Wood <wood@isoc.org>;
> tao-discuss@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [tao-discuss] New Version of the Tao of the IETF
>
>
>
> Hi Adrian,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the follow up! A quick comment in-line:
>
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 1:01 AM Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Niels,
>
> FWIW most of the IETF lists have assigned "moderators". Those moderators
> are responsible for handling messages that don’t make it through (for
> whatever reason) and usually for handling posts from unsubscribed senders.
>
>
>
> So maybe it makes sense to add this explainer to the Tao and avoid the
> rabbit hole?
>
> I think the term "moderator" is used for the person who has these
> responsibilities by the list management package.
> Whether that means those lists are moderated is therefore something we
> could discuss. But maybe it is better not to?
>
> Furthermore, in IRC the term "moderation" usually happens post facto and
> is similar to what Corinne notes the SAAs doing.
>
> I would suggest that the Tao explicitly says what it means. The price of a
> few extra words for the removal of what turns out to be an ambiguous term
> (which is, in any case, a buzz word with which some people might not be
> familiar).
>
> Best,
> Adrian
>
> PS. The new mailing list that Corinne is referring to was just announced
> by Barry Liebe on ietf@ietf.org, and is last-call@ietf.org
>
> >> 2. related, the current text says that "the ietf discussion list is
> unmoderated" is that correct? it seems
> >> like there is some moderation going on, with interventions from the
> SAA's (leaving aside the debate
> >> about how much moderation is good moderation) which you mention later
> on in that paragraph.
> >
> > I think the colloquial understanding of 'unmoderated mailinglist' is:
> >
> > A moderated mailing list requires each subscriber and message to be
> approved by the "owner" of a list.
> >
> > (from: https://www.calvin.edu/~rbobeldy/tutorials/email/elistserv4.htm)
> >
> > In that sense ietf@ietf is unmoderated.
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Corinne Cath - Speth
> Ph.D. Candidate, Oxford Internet Institute & Alan Turing Institute
>
> Web: www.oii.ox.ac.uk/people/corinne-cath
> Email: ccath@turing.ac.uk & corinnecath@gmail.com
> Twitter: @C_CS
>


-- 

Best regards,
Kathleen