[tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missing cites and encouraging better citing
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Tue, 26 June 2018 20:36 UTC
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To: tao-discuss@ietf.org
Cc: "Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor)" <rse@rfc-editor.org>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2018 08:36:17 +1200
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Subject: [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missing cites and encouraging better citing
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Forwarding this because it includes: > I think a note on the IETF norms for referencing other RFCs to be a good > thing to include in the Tao. And maybe some of the waffle in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-whats-an-author would also fit in the Tao? Brian -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: what to do about missing cites and encouraging better citing Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:24:12 -0700 From: Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) <rse@rfc-editor.org> To: ietf@ietf.org On 6/25/18 12:52 AM, John C Klensin wrote: > > --On Sunday, June 24, 2018 17:14 -0700 Randy Bush > <randy@psg.com> wrote: > >>> but didn't detect great enthusiasm in the community for >>> dealing with authorship ethics in general. >> how embarrassing and shameful > Randy, > > While I agree that this is embarrassing and shameful (and could > add other words), I question one aspect of your earlier note. > > At least until the IAB decides to micromanage that, an erratum > and its appropriateness is determined by the discretion of the > RFC Series Editor. The term is arguably not precisely correct > for the way we use the things and I've seen many of them whose > subject matter or content would not be appropriate if the > classic publisher definition were used. > > So I would recommend a conversation with Heather (copied) and > use of the errata mechanism, at least unless she strongly > disagrees and wants to propose another mechanism. That would at > least get citation on the record. While I'm not optimistic, if > author(s) are shamed sufficiently to not omit such citations in > the future, that would be A Good Thing. I think all of us > should be encouraged to watch for obvious omissions on Last Call > and would encourage document shepherds and responsible ADs (in > the IETF Stream) and reviewers (in others) to pay attention to > the issue. Heather does not disagree - the errata system is the best mechanism we have at this time, and it does allow an author to respond as needed. > > I would suggest to Heather that a mention of this as the Style > Guide evolves would probably also be a good thing -- it isn't as > if adding relevant citations is difficult or costly. This is going to be a bit trickier. I'm supportive of adding something about author ethics, but it would be along the lines of "the RFC Editor will not be checking on this; you should do this because it's the right thing." We don't have the resources to do a full-on review of the literature; if the IETF wants that as a priority, we'll need to talk about costs and/or reprioritizing other RFC Editor activities. I think a note on the IETF norms for referencing other RFCs to be a good thing to include in the Tao. -Heather > > We will probably never get everything right, but we can try > harder. > > best, > john >
- Re: [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missi… Niels ten Oever
- [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missing c… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missi… Brian E Carpenter