Re: [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missing cites and encouraging better citing
Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com> Sat, 30 June 2018 02:31 UTC
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References: <2b16b471-8d23-1d52-dd5d-275290a1fdf2@rfc-editor.org> <b8114894-6cb4-a226-1151-0b7965045f91@gmail.com> <5e17f48f-f873-c9a0-9cdd-97a5dbbb443e@nielstenoever.net>
From: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 30 Jun 2018 14:31:14 +1200
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Subject: Re: [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missing cites and encouraging better citing
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Niels, Sorry, I'm out of time before the IETF but you are very welcome to cut & paste any of my text that you want. Regards Brian On 28/06/2018 00:12, Niels ten Oever wrote: > Sounds good to me. Would you have concrete suggestions? > > Best, > > Niels > > On 06/26/2018 10:36 PM, Brian E Carpenter wrote: >> Forwarding this because it includes: >> >>> I think a note on the IETF norms for referencing other RFCs to be a good >>> thing to include in the Tao. >> >> And maybe some of the waffle in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-carpenter-whats-an-author would also fit in the Tao? >> >> Brian >> >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: Re: what to do about missing cites and encouraging better citing >> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2018 13:24:12 -0700 >> From: Heather Flanagan (RFC Series Editor) <rse@rfc-editor.org> >> To: ietf@ietf.org >> >> On 6/25/18 12:52 AM, John C Klensin wrote: >>> >>> --On Sunday, June 24, 2018 17:14 -0700 Randy Bush >>> <randy@psg.com> wrote: >>> >>>>> but didn't detect great enthusiasm in the community for >>>>> dealing with authorship ethics in general. >>>> how embarrassing and shameful >>> Randy, >>> >>> While I agree that this is embarrassing and shameful (and could >>> add other words), I question one aspect of your earlier note. >>> >>> At least until the IAB decides to micromanage that, an erratum >>> and its appropriateness is determined by the discretion of the >>> RFC Series Editor. The term is arguably not precisely correct >>> for the way we use the things and I've seen many of them whose >>> subject matter or content would not be appropriate if the >>> classic publisher definition were used. >>> >>> So I would recommend a conversation with Heather (copied) and >>> use of the errata mechanism, at least unless she strongly >>> disagrees and wants to propose another mechanism. That would at >>> least get citation on the record. While I'm not optimistic, if >>> author(s) are shamed sufficiently to not omit such citations in >>> the future, that would be A Good Thing. I think all of us >>> should be encouraged to watch for obvious omissions on Last Call >>> and would encourage document shepherds and responsible ADs (in >>> the IETF Stream) and reviewers (in others) to pay attention to >>> the issue. >> >> Heather does not disagree - the errata system is the best mechanism we >> have at this time, and it does allow an author to respond as needed. >> >>> >>> I would suggest to Heather that a mention of this as the Style >>> Guide evolves would probably also be a good thing -- it isn't as >>> if adding relevant citations is difficult or costly. >> >> This is going to be a bit trickier. I'm supportive of adding something >> about author ethics, but it would be along the lines of "the RFC Editor >> will not be checking on this; you should do this because it's the right >> thing." We don't have the resources to do a full-on review of the >> literature; if the IETF wants that as a priority, we'll need to talk >> about costs and/or reprioritizing other RFC Editor activities. >> >> I think a note on the IETF norms for referencing other RFCs to be a good >> thing to include in the Tao. >> >> -Heather >> >>> >>> We will probably never get everything right, but we can try >>> harder. >>> >>> best, >>> john >>> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> tao-discuss mailing list >> tao-discuss@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tao-discuss >> >
- Re: [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missi… Niels ten Oever
- [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missing c… Brian E Carpenter
- Re: [tao-discuss] Fwd: Re: what to do about missi… Brian E Carpenter