Re: [tao-discuss] First draft of new version

[Niels ten Oever <[e-mail]>]

Thanks for the review!

On 05/31/2018 07:57 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> Niels,
> 
> Thanks for summoning the energy for this work. The Tao is immensely important as a gateway to the IETF and facilitates an understanding of our peculiar "culture" and so makes participation by newcomers much easier.

Yes! And since our culture is evolving, so should the Tao :)

> 
> Here are a few thoughts with my ISE hat on.
> 

Thanks!

> Cheers,
> Adrian.
> 
> 1.
> You have: "RFCs are the IETF's main technical documentation series,"
> This may give the impression that you are defining RFCs, but they have wider scope.
> How about...
> "The IETF publishes its main technical documentation as RFC,"
> 

Accepted and changed.

> 2.2.5
> s/the RFC Editor and IANA involved/the RFC Editor and IANA are involved/
> 

This is the full sentence:

Although both the RFC Editor and IANA involved the same people for many
years, the RFC Editor is a separate job. Today,

Your suggestion would make it grammatically incorrect, right? (But am a
bit hesitant to say this as a non-native english speaker to a native
one, so happy to learn :) ).

> 2.2.5
> All Internet-Drafts are posted under the same copyright, IPR, and other rules, so it may be better to change as...
> OLD
> The RFC Editor edits, formats, and publishes Internet-Drafts as RFCs, working in conjunction
> with the IESG for IETF drafts, the IRTF Chair for IRTF drafts, the IAB for IAB drafts, and the 
> Independent Submissions Editor for Independent Submission drafts, and of course the
> work with the author(s).
> NEW
> The RFC Editor edits, formats, and publishes Internet-Drafts as RFCs, working in conjunction
> with the IESG for IETF RFCs, the IRTF Chair for IRTF RFCs, the IAB for IAB RFCs, and the 
> Independent Submissions Editor for Independent Submission RFC, and of course 
> working with the authors.
> END
> 

Accepted and changed.

> 2.2.5 
> I think this may be the right place to cover another significant misconception. We should certainly cover it somewhere and this looks as good a place as any. Something like...
> "Another misconception common in the IETF and across the industry as a whole is that all RFCs are the work of the IETF. In fact, of the four sources of RFCs listed above (IETF, IAB, IRTF, and Independent Submissions), only those coming direct from the IETF  through working groups or sponsored by ADs are capable of having IETF consensus and being described as IETF specifications or standards."
> 

Accepted, but suggest we remove 'in the IETF and across the industry as
a whole'.

So I'd suggest:

Another common misconception is that all RFCs are the work of the IETF.
In fact, of the four sources of RFCs listed above (IETF, IAB, IRTF, and
Independent Submissions), only those coming direct from the IETF
through working groups or sponsored by ADs are capable of having IETF
consensus and being described as IETF specifications or standards.


> 4.3
> s/WG drafts and independent drafts/WG drafts and individual drafts/
> s/discuss independent drafts/discuss individual drafts/
> (or "personal drafts")
> 

Both accepted and changed.

> 6.
> I think it would be helpful to clarify the scope of this section with text like...
> "This section discusses Internet-Drafts and RFCs in the IETF stream, that is, it describes how documents are produced and advanced within the IETF. For a brief note on other RFC streams, see Section 2.2.5."
> 

Excellent, accepted and added.

Best,

Niels


> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: tao-discuss [mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Niels ten
>> Oever
>> Sent: 31 May 2018 16:07
>> To: [e-mail]
>> Subject: [tao-discuss] First draft of new version
>>
>> Dear all,
>>
>> I have made a first pass over the Tao and sought to make some
>> improvements. I will make another pass but I also wanted to see whether
>> people have suggestions or improvement on this new versions.
>>
>> Comments are very welcome here (txt with my edits attached, as well as
>> the current Tao), but also pull requests on github:
>> https://github.com/nllz/Tao-of-the-IETF/blob/master/Tao.txt
>>
>> Else expect a new version before IETF102.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Niels
>