Re: [tao-discuss] Misleading text on copyright

[Joel Halpern <[e-mail]>]

Thanks Niels.  I had no intent to imply or suggest any deliberate error 
on anyone's part.  I assumed (and still understand) that it was an 
honest misunderstanding of the often confusing rules.

The proposed fix looks good.  Please send it to the trust for an extra 
check.

Thank you,

Joel

On 9/14/2022 7:04 AM, Niels ten Oever wrote:
> Hi Joel,
>
> On 14-09-2022 02:42, Joel Halpern wrote:
>> The text on copyright in section 6.1 is misleading in two ways, one 
>> more important than the other. While I understand we do not want to 
>> get the Tao into the details of copyright law, as a trustee I am 
>> concerned about being too misleading.
>>
>
> From Merriam-Webster:
>
> Def. Misleading
> : to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief 
> often by deliberate deceit
>
> I don't think there is any deliberate deceit here, but you might have 
> not meant that.
>
>> The problems are in the fourth paragraph.
>>
>> The first problem is that the grant to the trust occurs when the 
>> individual draft is submitted.  (It also occurs when any revision is 
>> made,  Or when the adopted version is adopted.)  The current text 
>> says that the grant occurs for the first time when the draft is adopted.
>>
>> The second issue is subtle and hard to get right here.  What happens 
>> is that the author retains their copyright in the document.  And 
>> grants the IETF (and thus the Trust) a copyright. The copyright is 
>> not transfererd but granted.  The wording in the fourth paragraph is 
>> confusing in this regard.
>>
>> To solve both these problems, I suggest that after the first 
>> paragraph, we add a new second paragraph:
>>
>> Note that as part of submitting an Internet Draft according to the 
>> rules, you grant the IETF certain rights.  These rights give the IETF 
>> the ability to reliably build upon the work you have brought forward. 
>> These rights are held by the IETF Trust.  Which is all you need to 
>> know about the Trust.
>
> I think this text is great, but maybe we can omit that last sentence? 
> It sounds a bit like: don't think about a pink elephant.
>
>>
>> I would then modify the fourth paragraph to make clear that the point 
>> of the paragraph is that once a WG adopts a document, the WG has 
>> change control.  And that one should only embark on this process if 
>> one is prepared to grant that change control.  No need to talk there 
>> about the Trust.
>>
>> I would suggest that the new paragraph be emailed to the trust to 
>> make sure it is close enough we can live with it, as I am not here 
>> speaking for the Trust.
>
> Does this look good to you: https://github.com/ietf/tao/pull/54 ?
>
> If so, am happy to also email it to the trust.
>
> Best,
>
> Niels
>
>
>
>>
>> Yours,
>>
>> Joel
>>
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