Re: [tao-discuss] [Gendispatch] Requests for IETF 114

"Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com> Fri, 10 June 2022 13:33 UTC

Return-Path: <rsalz@akamai.com>
X-Original-To: tao-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tao-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E5CEC1A7F1C for <tao-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 06:33:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.852
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.852 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.745, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=akamai.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u4YIM-CbTWF8 for <tao-discuss@ietfa.amsl.com>; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 06:33:52 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com [IPv6:2620:100:9001:583::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29EE2C15BEC6 for <tao-discuss@ietf.org>; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 06:33:44 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0122332.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (8.17.1.5/8.17.1.5) with ESMTP id 25ABklou008606; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:33:42 +0100
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=akamai.com; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-id : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=jan2016.eng; bh=8GD/wB4wgoDx1rl49MmBjAMUD3rTH4Y8oPSRXuK5s8E=; b=Cab3y7g5d4ZSoOYpJ3A53sQwntth0NN79sl3nKKq8BU8GHVsepyNKJbQYH3CEku0dY6g 8P6N55nXVOSiLlRcTQILv1L8thhY2wqn4CjzFyJNwr6BIQo6vfOIfkP3DOCpvS4joPvg ipozMUG+D69fDtn720iZDEewCpPi7Jig7oNSXGTXkoGlNGw15LBakKdhPvDPD2IljQYV WZvFjgJlkhFisxBmlcAsFMxbWgMXUmOKO6UokFgtCDo1XDGbyha4JaaHJ5B+0TLr5D3y EyKYWHPC0biZg1liaGQXkqI2kRtgSpNndAQeHb8xj7Xr3MSwJ+80Wx/8FC29qvNSfRm1 Xw==
Received: from prod-mail-ppoint2 (prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com [184.51.33.19] (may be forged)) by mx0a-00190b01.pphosted.com (PPS) with ESMTPS id 3gk6ufned1-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 10 Jun 2022 14:33:42 +0100
Received: from pps.filterd (prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com [127.0.0.1]) by prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 25ADOkOo023673; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 09:33:41 -0400
Received: from email.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.91.23]) by prod-mail-ppoint2.akamai.com with ESMTP id 3ggy8dfq5j-2 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Fri, 10 Jun 2022 09:33:40 -0400
Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.122) by usma1ex-dag4mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.91.23) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384) id 15.2.986.26; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 09:33:40 -0400
Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.121) by ustx2ex-dag1mb4.msg.corp.akamai.com (172.27.165.122) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1497.36; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 08:33:39 -0500
Received: from USTX2EX-DAG1MB3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.121]) by ustx2ex-dag1mb3.msg.corp.akamai.com ([172.27.165.121]) with mapi id 15.00.1497.036; Fri, 10 Jun 2022 08:33:39 -0500
From: "Salz, Rich" <rsalz@akamai.com>
To: Brian E Carpenter <brian.e.carpenter@gmail.com>
CC: "tao-discuss@ietf.org" <tao-discuss@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [tao-discuss] [Gendispatch] Requests for IETF 114
Thread-Index: AQHYebotIulFy1LnRE+3Q9TkTRfp8a1DM8UA///lA4CAAQQ7gIABQMSAgABuOwCAAIoLgP//vyWAgABSmYCAAMOTAIAAzGEAgADC7wA=
Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 13:33:39 +0000
Message-ID: <DBA1D57C-5276-4EF5-9C5B-7EC13158FB0D@akamai.com>
References: <CAC9wnY-03+ToGL4KjjRaXBquxV2DeBaax67bxJB9qZEj=PSELg@mail.gmail.com> <CABcZeBMH32C2ogd8+hLt_6PEqVxSJV0tBAVygswLtSKhvpVs+Q@mail.gmail.com> <9a29ffe1-c78e-77ad-86ce-661265e5d2df@joelhalpern.com> <A9BAD84B-9228-494B-A988-8665768061B0@akamai.com> <340d6b2a-6cd2-ccdd-6d0b-a2a9ac44e7d8@gmail.com> <CABcZeBN_ATZbA+txPFH3F6OyTpn1WEZ3kC1hBvcvHoShFNibSw@mail.gmail.com> <CAChr6Sw8aMA68Pp5UJ2VDtFzsZ+WDJ2yOXFNgi=1qrEL4FtFMQ@mail.gmail.com> <CAHw9_iKOAkj1TAZ0fvDKi_x1gNs7jPBgt--_ZR99NLc-tUXOUw@mail.gmail.com> <90f43001-461a-5eff-ccb5-59ac70ec71df@gmail.com> <CA77A52B-370B-4366-828E-0C57E6234259@akamai.com> <E095FA37-6C80-4014-865F-D09B9D784D3D@ietf.org> <f02f98af-0b23-2e4b-4ffb-d93f14588e0a@nielstenoever.net> <CAHw9_iJNhyTAXax9ug3aQoiJymp-uco1G5OKCpZUiX6qy9Y-Zw@mail.gmail.com> <102851a6-f5f7-b51b-9d4c-6ac4ffeb5da0@gmail.com> <9AB72750-7FBA-4774-BE94-F40ED92EE23E@akamai.com> <fc148350-538d-fab7-590f-0caa33bc20b1@gmail.com> <DA19D43E-52F9-41C7-9E55-CFE29E675353@akamai.com> <d3fdd542-841b-6208-14c4-25720156e53b@gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <d3fdd542-841b-6208-14c4-25720156e53b@gmail.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/16.61.22050700
x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1
x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted
x-originating-ip: [172.27.118.139]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Content-ID: <3C2BB8EFE39A784C81D66475BA6F655D@akamai.com>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.517, 18.0.874 definitions=2022-06-10_05:2022-06-09, 2022-06-10 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 mlxlogscore=770 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 adultscore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206100054
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: RJbsYSfNRzTqdvEzZV6aZPm3fJM50SDn
X-Proofpoint-GUID: RJbsYSfNRzTqdvEzZV6aZPm3fJM50SDn
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.205,Aquarius:18.0.874,Hydra:6.0.517,FMLib:17.11.64.514 definitions=2022-06-10_06,2022-06-09_02,2022-02-23_01
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1015 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 adultscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=765 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2204290000 definitions=main-2206100055
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tao-discuss/z9mLntQQ8k3w4EvQpE16E3-rhQk>
Subject: Re: [tao-discuss] [Gendispatch] Requests for IETF 114
X-BeenThere: tao-discuss@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39
Precedence: list
List-Id: Discussion of the Tao of the IETF <tao-discuss.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tao-discuss>, <mailto:tao-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tao-discuss/>
List-Post: <mailto:tao-discuss@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tao-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tao-discuss>, <mailto:tao-discuss-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 10 Jun 2022 13:33:56 -0000

>    IMHO, we here are presumed to understand Internet infrastructure jargon, but not HCI jargon.

But we are discussing HCI, in particular User Experience. And it someone uses an unfamiliar term (Greg Wood first talked about shorter content to user journeys, IIRC) then it behooves folks to ask for clarification, web-search, or whatever. I don't walk into a DNS WG and ask people to explain the difference between a recursive and an authoritative resolver.  Whatever.  I still think your use of "scare quotes" around the word was wrong, but I accept that you meant nothing insulting by it. Sorry to harp on it, but I think understanding that this is about the user experience primarily for a newcomer, and not a reference document on what bits go where, is important.

>    I can't begin to express my annoyance at the prevalence of dynamic and often rearranged web content that makes URL bookmarking close to pointless. (To be clear, I'm speaking in general, not about the IETF site, which has done a good job in general at preserving URLs.) So, a stable URL, not forever but for many years. However, the *content* of informational pages obviously needs to be actively curated.

Would you be happy if the page included time-based URL's that jumped directly to the appropriate part of an introductory video?

>    Suppose my fictional /tao page included:

It seems reasonable to me, but I'm not going to get involved in designing any part of the IETF website as I prefer to leave that to experts.