Re: [tcmtf] Improved version of the TCMTF Charter proposal (v3)

["Jose Saldana" <[e-mail]>]

Yes, Martin. The idea is that many interested people may attend IETF Berlin
in July: at least I know about interested people from U. Zaragoza, DLR,
Telefonica, U. Zagreb, U. Stuttgart, who could attend that BoF. And also
co-authors from Cisco (Dan, Michael, and perhaps Muthu) may be there. Well,
these are the news I have. In addition, Mirko and I would also be able to
organize the "online games traffic tutorial there".

So is your idea to have a BoF for discussing the TCMTF WG in Berlin? Do you
prefer that possibility instead of the "DISPATCH" option that Gonzalo
suggested? If you confirm that, we would take it into account in order to
organize the summer calendar.

Thanks a lot,

Jose
PS: This is the option that Gonzalo suggested to Wes (November 29th):
"Hi Wes,

sure. When the proponents have a charter proposal ready, feel free to send
it to the TSVAREA list for comments while informing all the other lists. If
you want, I can take care of informing the DISPATCH list pointing to the
relevant message in the TSVAREA list when you send it.

With respect to where discussions should take place, DISPATCH participants
will find it easier to send comments on the DISPATCH list.
However, if sending comments requires subscribing to a different list and
sending comments to a different crowd, many may not bother commenting. I can
monitor the discussions in DISPATCH and send you a summary if needed. Since
we are talking about very few lists, it should be relatively easy to keep
things under control.

Cheers,

Gonzalo"
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] En nombre de
> Martin Stiemerling
> Enviado el: martes, 29 de enero de 2013 11:39
> Para: FERNANDO PASCUAL BLANCO
> CC: [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail];
> [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Asunto: Re: [tcmtf] Improved version of the TCMTF Charter proposal (v3)
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> The BoF deadline for the upcoming meeting was Jan 28.
> 
> Further, my understanding is the relevant proponents cannot make it to the
> IETF meeting in March in Orlando, but that there is a plan for the IETF
> meeting in Berlin in July 2013.
> 
>    Martin
> 
> On 01/29/2013 11:13 AM, FERNANDO PASCUAL BLANCO wrote:
> > Hi all,
> >
> >          In my opinion the WG is needed. TCMTF discussion have reach
> > enough interest and enough roadmap to have a room for itself, at least
> > an small room. As Jose said, there are two enough active drafts and
> > there is potentially room for three more, and I think this is a
> > justification by itself.
> >          On the other hand, I also think that we are problem centered.
> > At least being in a network operation feet I find TCMTF useful enough.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Fernando Pascual Blanco
> > Telefónica Global Resources
> > Network Automation and Dynamization
> > TECHNOLOGY PEOPLE GROUP
> > F [phone]
> > M [phone]
> > [e-mail]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 29/01/13 10:56, "Jose Saldana" <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> >> Matteo,
> >>
> >> Thanks a lot. Well, in this case, I don't agree with you (only in
> >> this case).
> >>
> >> The idea with TCMTF was to create a "small" Working Group, the same
> >> way as they are created in other Areas (e.g. RAI).
> >>
> >> As Wes said in November, " In my opinion, it is something a separate
> >> WG should be created to handle, and not something to try to do inside
> >> the TSVWG, since there are already a handful of things TSVWG is
> >> wrestling with, and it creates too much "context switching" to have a
> >> lot of unrelated topics under work there."
> >>
> >> The question is that the TSVWG group has a lot of interesting things
> >> now, and it would be better to discuss TCMTF separately. In fact,
> >> since the Summer, we are discussing it in another mailing list. This
> >> is good, but in fact many people from TSVWG have not followed our
> discussion.
> >>
> >> In addition, a lot of time has passed. TCMTF draft was presented in
> >> Paris
> >> 10
> >> months ago. A lot of people from many institutions have become
> >> interested on it. We have two drafts and three more possibilities.
> >>
> >> Neither am I an expert on IETF, but I understand that things have
> >> some
> >> "momentum": if you let time go by, people may lose their interest.
> >> And curently interest does exist, as we have seen in the list. So why
not
> now?
> >>
> >> In addition, the new version of the Charter is more problem-centered
> >> (I hope).
> >>
> >> Thanks and best regards,
> >>
> >> Jose
> >>
> >>
> >>> -----Mensaje original-----
> >>> De: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] En
> nombre
> >>> de [e-mail] Enviado el: martes, 29 de enero de 2013
> >>> 9:18
> >>> Para: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> >>> CC: [e-mail]; [e-mail];
> >>> [e-mail]
> >>> Asunto: Re: [tcmtf] Improved version of the TCMTF Charter proposal
> >>> (v3)
> >>>
> >>> Dear all,
> >>>
> >>> I don't have a huge experience in IETF, but feel it is important to
> >> express my
> >>> opinion this time.
> >>> I have the feeling building a new WG is a bit premature, considering
> >>> that
> >> we
> >>> just have an Internet draft.
> >>> I also find the discussion a bit documents-driven, rather than
> >>> problems- driven.
> >>> IMHO we could wait a bit, before creating the WG, to see whether the
> >>> ideas we have really solve real-world problems.
> >>>
> >>> That's it. Hope this helps.
> >>>
> >>> Matteo
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: [e-mail] [mailto:[e-mail]] On
> >>> Behalf Of Wesley Eddy
> >>> Sent: 24 January 2013 06:16
> >>> To: [e-mail]
> >>> Cc: [e-mail]; Gonzalo Camarillo; Martin Stiemerling
> >>> Subject: Re: [tcmtf] Improved version of the TCMTF Charter proposal
> >>> (v3)
> >>>
> >>> On 1/23/2013 6:58 AM, Jose Saldana wrote:
> >>>> Hello all.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> After reading the messages in the mailing list, I think we have
> >>>> arrived to a solution. Each of the documents has been discussed in
> >>>> a separate thread, so I have tried to take everything into account.
> >>>> Documents (A) and (B) would be in the Charter. Documents (C) and
> >>>> (D) would only be announced as possibilities for re-chartering, and
> >>>> Document (E) can wait a little.
> >>>>
> >>>> ...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> In my opinion, this is decent, though here are two criticisms:
> >>>
> >>> (1) In my opinion, it focuses too much on documents to be produced,
> >>>      rather than fully and clearly motivating why the working group
> >>>      is needed (i.e. to solve a problem, not to develop documents),
> >>>      how it's scope is delimited (i.e. what it *won't* touch isn't
> >>>      clear to me, along with what other areas/WGs need to be
> >>>      coordinated with), and what the end-goal is.
> >>>
> >>> (2) There's a focus on defining technical solutions prior to the
> >>>      mention of fleshing out and totally defining the use cases /
> >>>      requirements.  In my opinion, that appears backwards :).
> >>>
> >>> That said, I'm generally supportive of this work.  In my opinion, as
> >>> an
> >> AD, we
> >>> would normally feel better having a BoF before forming a WG, for two
> >>> reasons (1) to get other areas (e.g. RAI) to be aware of what's
> >>> being proposed, and (2) to vet that there really is a community of
> >>> stakeholders that are engaged to do the work.  In this case, I think
> >>> the 2nd point is evident from the mailing list, and I don't have a
> >>> concern about it at all.
> >> I
> >>> think the 1st point can be addressed through the responsible AD
> >>> coordinating with the IESG and the directorates or area mailing
> >>> lists that related areas have.
> >>> Since I'm going away as an AD though, what really matters at the
> >>> moment is what Martin thinks :).
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Wes Eddy
> >>> MTI Systems
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> tcmtf mailing list
> >>> [e-mail]
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcmtf
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> tcmtf mailing list
> >>> [e-mail]
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcmtf
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> tcmtf mailing list
> >> [e-mail]
> >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcmtf
> >
> >
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