Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them?

"Jose Saldana" <jsaldana@unizar.es> Fri, 11 October 2013 15:40 UTC

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From: "Jose Saldana" <jsaldana@unizar.es>
To: <l.wood@surrey.ac.uk>, <tsv-area@ietf.org>
References: <003801cec408$32ea9560$98bfc020$@unizar.es> <CAPaG1AmcO8a+FEWd+gYa6+mcEVzHf=iUC_Ran1OmHUvTY+=pVw@mail.gmail.com> <000101cec41b$b116ddf0$134499d0$@unizar.es> <CAPaG1Aku8BALtJO9rdu3xV0mJ9L+1Lt_gJ1E7n+3YA-rugiOaw@mail.gmail.com>, <001301cec598$f094d670$d1be8350$@unizar.es> <290E20B455C66743BE178C5C84F12408374274D58A@EXMB01CMS.surrey.ac.uk>
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Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:40:25 +0200
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Subject: Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them?
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Hi, Lloyd. Thanks a lot for the link! It is really interesting: a country
with 1400 people sharing a single satellite connection. In fact, it is
similar to Alcalalí, the village in Spain, in which also 1400 people share
the Internet access provided by the local Council.
(http://www.alcalali.es/ver/137/informacion-general.html). 

With real-time I was trying to say "services with 100, 200 or 300 ms delay
limit", i.e. the ones we are considering in this tcm-tf draft
(http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-suznjevic-tsvwg-mtd-tcmtf/?include_te
xt=1), i.e. VoIP, online games or remote desktop.

Thanks again,

Jose

> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: tcmtf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tcmtf-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de
> l.wood@surrey.ac.uk
> Enviado el: jueves, 10 de octubre de 2013 23:46
> Para: jsaldana@unizar.es; tsv-area@ietf.org
> CC: tcmtf@ietf.org
> Asunto: Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them?
> 
> 
> Webcam/chat is realtime.
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue
> The island of Niue  has a similar free internet model, backhauled via a
satellite
> link.
> 
> Lloyd Wood
> http://sat-net.com/L.Wood/
> 
> 
> ________________________________________
> From: tsv-area-bounces@ietf.org [tsv-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of
> Jose Saldana [jsaldana@unizar.es]
> Sent: 10 October 2013 10:13
> To: tsv-area@ietf.org
> Cc: tcmtf@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them?
> 
> Regarding Community Networks, I have found some information about their
> deployment in rural areas. The Council of a village shares an Internet
> connection with all the neighbors, and they get Internet for free. For
> example, see this small village (1400 people) called Alcalalí, in
Alicante, Spain.
> http://www.alcalali.es/ver/137/informacion-general.html.
> 
> The question is that, when they talk about the services, they say
"Consulta
> de páginas web, descarga de correos, Facebook, Youtube, Yahoo, Hotmail,
> webcam, chats, etc." (web pages, e-mail, Facebook, Youtube, Yahoo,
> Hotmail, webcam, chats, etc.). Not a single real-time service is cited.
> 
> This can be a very interesting use case for TCM-TF: a "bottleneck" (the
> Internet connection) shared by a number of people. If traffic gets
optimized,
> perhaps they could also offer real-time services like VoIP.
> 
> What do you think? This is working in Spain, but it can also be useful for
> developing countries or zones where network operators have not deployed
> an infrastructure yet.
> 
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Jose
> 
> > -----Mensaje original-----
> > De: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com
> > [mailto:arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com]
> > En nombre de Arjuna Sathiaseelan
> > Enviado el: martes, 08 de octubre de 2013 23:43
> > Para: jsaldana@unizar.es
> > CC: tcmtf@ietf.org; tsv-area@ietf.org
> > Asunto: Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them?
> >
> > Hello Jose,
> > Any method that utilises the low bandwidth infrastructure more
> > efficiently
> is
> > definitely useful.
> >
> > Just a digression: have you considered the use of UDP-lite for TCM-TF?
> >
> > Regards
> > Arjuna
> >
> > On 8 October 2013 12:44, Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es> wrote:
> > > Hi, Arjuna,
> > >
> > > The idea of multipath TCP sounds interesting. It consists of
> > > "inverse multiplexing" with TCP. However, TCM-TF does "multiplexing"
> with UDP.
> > >
> > > What I was thinking is: can these scenarios also fit with TCM-TF?
> > > The idea is to compress small-packet flows (VoIP, online games) in
> > > order to save bandwidth, when a number of flows share a common path.
> > > We
> > have
> > > discarded the multiplexing of TCP, because the additional delay may
> > > modify the dynamics of TCP.
> > >
> > > TCM-TF combines header compression, multiplexing and tunneling, in
> > > order to aggregate a number of flows, when a low-bandwidth link is
> > > in the path. Thus, bandwidth can be saved and pps can be reduced, at
> > > the cost of processing power.
> > >
> > > Do you think this case can be found in these kind of networks? In
> > > the discussion of TCM-TF in Berlin this summer, some people from
> > > Africa were interested, since they think that low-bandwidth links
> > > have to be better used.
> > >
> > > Thanks!
> > >
> > > Jose
> > >
> > >> -----Mensaje original-----
> > >> De: tcmtf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tcmtf-bounces@ietf.org] En
> > >> nombre de Arjuna Sathiaseelan Enviado el: martes, 08 de octubre de
> > >> 2013
> > >> 11:42
> > >> Para: jsaldana@unizar.es
> > >> CC: tcmtf@ietf.org; tsv-area@ietf.org
> > >> Asunto: Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them?
> > >>
> > >> Dear Jose,
> > >>   I would like to take this opportunity to present some of the work
> > >> we are doing here at Cambridge -
> > >>
> > >> We are trying to solve the universal service problem in urban areas
> > >> (where people cannot afford to access the Internet) using existing
> > >> home broadband networks - home owners who have Internet
> > connections
> > >> share their Internet connection for free with those who dont have.
> > >>
> > >> We are currently doing deployments in a deprived area in Nottingham
> > >> ( see www.publicaccesswifi.org )
> > >>
> > >> More on the LCDNet initiative is here:
> > >> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/lcd/index.html
> > >>
> > >> There are interesting possibilities to do multi-path TCP between
> > > aggregating
> > >> multiple access points and we are exploring that option too.
> > >>
> > >> The TIER group in berkeley have done quite a lot of nice work with
> > > wireless
> > >> for developing countries:
> > >> tier.cs.berkeley.edu/
> > >>
> > >> Happy to discuss more :)
> > >>
> > >> Regards
> > >> Arjuna
> > >>
> > >> On 8 October 2013 10:24, Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es> wrote:
> > >> > Hi all.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I have recently "discovered" the concept of Community Networks.
> > >> > They are "large scale, self-organized and decentralized networks,
> > >> > built and operated by citizens for citizens." They are "also
> > >> > self-owned and self-managed by community members, self-growing
> in
> > >> > links, capacity and
> > >> services provided."
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > A paper explaining them can be found here:
> > >> > http://www.sigcomm.org/ccr/papers/2013/July/2500098.2500108
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Some examples:
> > >> >
> > >> > http://funkfeuer.at/
> > >> >
> > >> > https://wlan-si.net/
> > >> >
> > >> > http://www.bogota-mesh.org/en
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I would like to know your opinion about this:
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > do you think this is a good idea?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Can they be a good place for developing experiments?
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > I think this can be a good solution for developing countries.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > In addition, regarding TCM-TF, can they be a new scenario where
> > >> > traffic optimization could be interesting? I mean, they do not
> > >> > have too much bandwidth, and they connect to the Internet through
> > >> > a single link in many cases (a bottleneck). One of the services
> > >> > considered is
> > > VoIP.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Thanks a lot!
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Jose
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> tcmtf mailing list
> > >> tcmtf@ietf.org
> > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcmtf
> > >
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