Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them?
"Jose Saldana" <jsaldana@unizar.es> Fri, 11 October 2013 15:40 UTC
Return-Path: <jsaldana@unizar.es>
X-Original-To: tcmtf@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcmtf@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B0B21E8120; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:40:38 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HS_INDEX_PARAM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NL2nWwgTUlv7; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:40:35 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from huecha.unizar.es (huecha.unizar.es [155.210.1.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BDAC21E80FA; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 08:40:34 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from jsaldanapc (112.Red-88-4-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net [88.4.241.112]) (authenticated bits=0) by huecha.unizar.es (8.13.8/8.13.8/Debian-3) with ESMTP id r9BFeMbi031407; Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:40:23 +0200
From: Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es>
To: l.wood@surrey.ac.uk, tsv-area@ietf.org
References: <003801cec408$32ea9560$98bfc020$@unizar.es> <CAPaG1AmcO8a+FEWd+gYa6+mcEVzHf=iUC_Ran1OmHUvTY+=pVw@mail.gmail.com> <000101cec41b$b116ddf0$134499d0$@unizar.es> <CAPaG1Aku8BALtJO9rdu3xV0mJ9L+1Lt_gJ1E7n+3YA-rugiOaw@mail.gmail.com>, <001301cec598$f094d670$d1be8350$@unizar.es> <290E20B455C66743BE178C5C84F12408374274D58A@EXMB01CMS.surrey.ac.uk>
In-Reply-To: <290E20B455C66743BE178C5C84F12408374274D58A@EXMB01CMS.surrey.ac.uk>
Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:40:25 +0200
Message-ID: <000a01cec698$37fefef0$a7fcfcd0$@unizar.es>
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0
Thread-Index: AQGsCYleI6d2ClbR0uwHsWWEfAsQMQE+g/hmAYGvmKkAwoWkeAFUasQvAUMqX2maBElQAA==
Content-Language: es
X-Mail-Scanned: Criba 2.0 + Clamd & Bogofilter
Cc: tcmtf@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them?
X-BeenThere: tcmtf@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Tunneling Compressed Multiplexed Traffic Flows \(TCMTF\) discussion list" <tcmtf.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tcmtf>, <mailto:tcmtf-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tcmtf>
List-Post: <mailto:tcmtf@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcmtf-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcmtf>, <mailto:tcmtf-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2013 15:40:38 -0000
Hi, Lloyd. Thanks a lot for the link! It is really interesting: a country with 1400 people sharing a single satellite connection. In fact, it is similar to Alcalalí, the village in Spain, in which also 1400 people share the Internet access provided by the local Council. (http://www.alcalali.es/ver/137/informacion-general.html). With real-time I was trying to say "services with 100, 200 or 300 ms delay limit", i.e. the ones we are considering in this tcm-tf draft (http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-suznjevic-tsvwg-mtd-tcmtf/?include_te xt=1), i.e. VoIP, online games or remote desktop. Thanks again, Jose > -----Mensaje original----- > De: tcmtf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tcmtf-bounces@ietf.org] En nombre de > l.wood@surrey.ac.uk > Enviado el: jueves, 10 de octubre de 2013 23:46 > Para: jsaldana@unizar.es; tsv-area@ietf.org > CC: tcmtf@ietf.org > Asunto: Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them? > > > Webcam/chat is realtime. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niue > The island of Niue has a similar free internet model, backhauled via a satellite > link. > > Lloyd Wood > http://sat-net.com/L.Wood/ > > > ________________________________________ > From: tsv-area-bounces@ietf.org [tsv-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of > Jose Saldana [jsaldana@unizar.es] > Sent: 10 October 2013 10:13 > To: tsv-area@ietf.org > Cc: tcmtf@ietf.org > Subject: RE: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them? > > Regarding Community Networks, I have found some information about their > deployment in rural areas. The Council of a village shares an Internet > connection with all the neighbors, and they get Internet for free. For > example, see this small village (1400 people) called Alcalalí, in Alicante, Spain. > http://www.alcalali.es/ver/137/informacion-general.html. > > The question is that, when they talk about the services, they say "Consulta > de páginas web, descarga de correos, Facebook, Youtube, Yahoo, Hotmail, > webcam, chats, etc." (web pages, e-mail, Facebook, Youtube, Yahoo, > Hotmail, webcam, chats, etc.). Not a single real-time service is cited. > > This can be a very interesting use case for TCM-TF: a "bottleneck" (the > Internet connection) shared by a number of people. If traffic gets optimized, > perhaps they could also offer real-time services like VoIP. > > What do you think? This is working in Spain, but it can also be useful for > developing countries or zones where network operators have not deployed > an infrastructure yet. > > > Thanks! > > Jose > > > -----Mensaje original----- > > De: arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com > > [mailto:arjuna.sathiaseelan@gmail.com] > > En nombre de Arjuna Sathiaseelan > > Enviado el: martes, 08 de octubre de 2013 23:43 > > Para: jsaldana@unizar.es > > CC: tcmtf@ietf.org; tsv-area@ietf.org > > Asunto: Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them? > > > > Hello Jose, > > Any method that utilises the low bandwidth infrastructure more > > efficiently > is > > definitely useful. > > > > Just a digression: have you considered the use of UDP-lite for TCM-TF? > > > > Regards > > Arjuna > > > > On 8 October 2013 12:44, Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es> wrote: > > > Hi, Arjuna, > > > > > > The idea of multipath TCP sounds interesting. It consists of > > > "inverse multiplexing" with TCP. However, TCM-TF does "multiplexing" > with UDP. > > > > > > What I was thinking is: can these scenarios also fit with TCM-TF? > > > The idea is to compress small-packet flows (VoIP, online games) in > > > order to save bandwidth, when a number of flows share a common path. > > > We > > have > > > discarded the multiplexing of TCP, because the additional delay may > > > modify the dynamics of TCP. > > > > > > TCM-TF combines header compression, multiplexing and tunneling, in > > > order to aggregate a number of flows, when a low-bandwidth link is > > > in the path. Thus, bandwidth can be saved and pps can be reduced, at > > > the cost of processing power. > > > > > > Do you think this case can be found in these kind of networks? In > > > the discussion of TCM-TF in Berlin this summer, some people from > > > Africa were interested, since they think that low-bandwidth links > > > have to be better used. > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > Jose > > > > > >> -----Mensaje original----- > > >> De: tcmtf-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:tcmtf-bounces@ietf.org] En > > >> nombre de Arjuna Sathiaseelan Enviado el: martes, 08 de octubre de > > >> 2013 > > >> 11:42 > > >> Para: jsaldana@unizar.es > > >> CC: tcmtf@ietf.org; tsv-area@ietf.org > > >> Asunto: Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them? > > >> > > >> Dear Jose, > > >> I would like to take this opportunity to present some of the work > > >> we are doing here at Cambridge - > > >> > > >> We are trying to solve the universal service problem in urban areas > > >> (where people cannot afford to access the Internet) using existing > > >> home broadband networks - home owners who have Internet > > connections > > >> share their Internet connection for free with those who dont have. > > >> > > >> We are currently doing deployments in a deprived area in Nottingham > > >> ( see www.publicaccesswifi.org ) > > >> > > >> More on the LCDNet initiative is here: > > >> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~as2330/lcd/index.html > > >> > > >> There are interesting possibilities to do multi-path TCP between > > > aggregating > > >> multiple access points and we are exploring that option too. > > >> > > >> The TIER group in berkeley have done quite a lot of nice work with > > > wireless > > >> for developing countries: > > >> tier.cs.berkeley.edu/ > > >> > > >> Happy to discuss more :) > > >> > > >> Regards > > >> Arjuna > > >> > > >> On 8 October 2013 10:24, Jose Saldana <jsaldana@unizar.es> wrote: > > >> > Hi all. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I have recently "discovered" the concept of Community Networks. > > >> > They are "large scale, self-organized and decentralized networks, > > >> > built and operated by citizens for citizens." They are "also > > >> > self-owned and self-managed by community members, self-growing > in > > >> > links, capacity and > > >> services provided." > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > A paper explaining them can be found here: > > >> > http://www.sigcomm.org/ccr/papers/2013/July/2500098.2500108 > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Some examples: > > >> > > > >> > http://funkfeuer.at/ > > >> > > > >> > https://wlan-si.net/ > > >> > > > >> > http://www.bogota-mesh.org/en > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I would like to know your opinion about this: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > do you think this is a good idea? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Can they be a good place for developing experiments? > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > I think this can be a good solution for developing countries. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > In addition, regarding TCM-TF, can they be a new scenario where > > >> > traffic optimization could be interesting? I mean, they do not > > >> > have too much bandwidth, and they connect to the Internet through > > >> > a single link in many cases (a bottleneck). One of the services > > >> > considered is > > > VoIP. > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Thanks a lot! > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Jose > > >> > > > >> > > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> tcmtf mailing list > > >> tcmtf@ietf.org > > >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcmtf > > > > _______________________________________________ > tcmtf mailing list > tcmtf@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcmtf
- [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about them? Jose Saldana
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Guangqing Deng
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Jose Saldana
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Arjuna Sathiaseelan
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Julián Fernández-Navajas
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Jose Saldana
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Scott Brim
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… l.wood
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Mirko Sužnjević
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Jose Saldana
- Re: [tcmtf] Community Neworks: any idea about the… Jose Saldana