Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions
Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie> Wed, 25 June 2014 11:07 UTC
Return-Path: <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Original-To: tcpcrypt@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpcrypt@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B55B1B2C05 for <tcpcrypt@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 04:07:11 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.551
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.551 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NlRnmLThqiqD for <tcpcrypt@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 04:07:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [134.226.56.6]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A52DE1B2C33 for <tcpcrypt@ietf.org>; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 04:04:36 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9036BE8B; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:04:35 +0100 (IST)
Received: from mercury.scss.tcd.ie ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mercury.scss.tcd.ie [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NKzkmOjziAAS; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:04:35 +0100 (IST)
Received: from [134.226.36.180] (stephen-think.dsg.cs.tcd.ie [134.226.36.180]) by mercury.scss.tcd.ie (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5D766BE32; Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:04:35 +0100 (IST)
Message-ID: <53AAACC3.302@cs.tcd.ie>
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 12:04:35 +0100
From: Stephen Farrell <stephen.farrell@cs.tcd.ie>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.6.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Sandy Harris <sandyinchina@gmail.com>, tcpcrypt@ietf.org
References: <CACXcFmmQCgTu6-QLJZdH8Q+ZST97ugoTaUWCUV0S6AWsjvCGfg@mail.gmail.com> <53A98F00.4000702@bbn.com> <CACXcFmkdK1VquTbi1bSxyfV9L1dDYvETMYoZV=nrumeJ7w6PoA@mail.gmail.com> <53AA1531.40306@cs.tcd.ie>
In-Reply-To: <53AA1531.40306@cs.tcd.ie>
X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tcpcrypt/44fnpA9RYqynPA4rvYPPlrBFq4E
Subject: Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions
X-BeenThere: tcpcrypt@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion list for adding encryption to TCP." <tcpcrypt.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tcpcrypt>, <mailto:tcpcrypt-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tcpcrypt/>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpcrypt@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpcrypt-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpcrypt>, <mailto:tcpcrypt-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 25 Jun 2014 11:07:11 -0000
Sorry, I omitted the link to the saag discussion about algorithm agility (thanks Marcelo for spotting that). The initial thread starts at [1], and iang's disagreement at [2]. S. [1] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/saag/current/msg04844.html [2] https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/saag/current/msg04960.html On 25/06/14 01:17, Stephen Farrell wrote: > > Hiya, > > On 24/06/14 21:22, Sandy Harris wrote: >>>> I can say that failure to accommodate alg agility will almost certainly >>>> cause the IESG to reject this as a standard, based on precedents >>>> for some time. >> >> OK, we need some agility, both because it is a good safety measure >> and because IESG will likely insist. > > Planning for what to do on the basis of what the IESG might > conclude at this level of detail is not a great plan. For > example, by the time the spec reaches the IESG the relevant > folks may have changed (I'm one of 'em for now btw) and/or > opinions as to the desirable mechanisms for algorithm > agility could have changed somewhat. > >> >> BUT the fewer choices there are, the simpler the protocol can be. >> That has costs in "design, implementation, testing & auditing" & >> extra options may mean a risk of downgrade attacks. > > There is a separate (sporadic) discussion on the saag list about > this. [1] Russ has written a draft trying to capture algorithm > agility in the form of a BCP. iang isn't keen but may so far be > in the rough. OTOH, we do have issues - its just dumb that there > are 300+ TLS ciphersuites, even with the combinatoric explosion, > and then there's vanity/national crypto as well that might also > be thought of differently here, or not, we'll see. > > So basically, I'd say leave this one until the WG which I hope > will be formed very shortly gets to discussing its protocol > details. And at that point I hope we see an argument about what's > the right thing to do. > > S. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Tcpcrypt mailing list > Tcpcrypt@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpcrypt > >
- [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Sandy Harris
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Joe Touch
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Joe Touch
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions ianG
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions ianG
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions ianG
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Joe Touch
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions ianG
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Joe Touch
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions ianG
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Joe Touch
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Tony Arcieri
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Derek Fawcus
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Derek Fawcus
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Joe Touch
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Stephen Kent
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Joe Touch
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions ianG
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Sandy Harris
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Joe Touch
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Stephen Farrell
- Re: [Tcpcrypt] Initial questions Tero Kivinen