Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno-01
ianG <iang@iang.org> Wed, 26 August 2015 16:34 UTC
Return-Path: <iang@iang.org>
X-Original-To: tcpinc@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpinc@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D370B1B29EF for <tcpinc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:34:42 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.9
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vShS2uFa7YRH for <tcpinc@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:34:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from virulha.pair.com (virulha.pair.com [209.68.5.166]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D8A41B29EB for <tcpinc@ietf.org>; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 09:34:41 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from tormenta.local (iang.org [209.197.106.187]) by virulha.pair.com (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9FBA56D78D; Wed, 26 Aug 2015 12:34:39 -0400 (EDT)
Message-ID: <55DDEA9E.20909@iang.org>
Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 17:34:38 +0100
From: ianG <iang@iang.org>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.10; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.7.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: tcpinc@ietf.org
References: <CABcZeBNEFVkDi38y3G-C2nQF=dzW2mGDsj5DVK_OKVkPwK=G0g@mail.gmail.com> <878u92oadf.fsf@ta.scs.stanford.edu> <CACsn0ckQskjLqo0=YfJrmBEsyCaq0jpcSzGUwKhRo0BzzQ=wDA@mail.gmail.com> <871teuo7nu.fsf@ta.scs.stanford.edu> <CACsn0ckn-QdoXmTgjW8gYQyVqZ0x9JHEYvZO5VHQkG9nKA3-Ew@mail.gmail.com> <87wpwmnenv.fsf@ta.scs.stanford.edu> <CACsn0cnq9cZdkn=yp8-GJfXDGMP8r1sib3qrQQEQYhF25kYZPg@mail.gmail.com> <87twrpokpz.fsf@ta.scs.stanford.edu> <CACsn0ck2PfKQ8pkDLiSmuLH+81s2GzsBnKYH7e=5ga5nSJvo1Q@mail.gmail.com> <87io85ofkl.fsf@ta.scs.stanford.edu> <CACsn0cmna07KzCZme7pxRgCcAOJLXzup3KPJ+bRimL=n3mpPXg@mail.gmail.com> <87vbc5l8si.fsf@ta.scs.stanford.edu> <CACsn0c=cLj2F6JyFX848D1TuDt0A=kT7UMm8ZPRRu-X6ow4oTQ@mail.gmail.com> <55DB79BC.8040309@bbn.com> <CACsn0ckLiC-RCjFNjLx01kCV2pEW58_NqJyt2bfXoAgZL994cw@mail.gmail.com> <55DC764F.4000104@bbn.com> <CAJU8_nW2tkQ9kLL=oyfjiry+8zWO1YR=hP4xM8L6uujWT8AzcA@mail.gmail.com>
In-Reply-To: <CAJU8_nW2tkQ9kLL=oyfjiry+8zWO1YR=hP4xM8L6uujWT8AzcA@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tcpinc/YRSFroZvFEMtHMDKQNG2Llkp_NE>
Subject: Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno-01
X-BeenThere: tcpinc@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion list for adding encryption to TCP." <tcpinc.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tcpinc>, <mailto:tcpinc-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tcpinc/>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpinc@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpinc-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpinc>, <mailto:tcpinc-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Aug 2015 16:34:43 -0000
On 25/08/2015 15:11 pm, Kyle Rose wrote: >> into the reality of comparing ciphersuites justifies exposing all >> possible ciphersuites, and permitting specifying arbitrary preferences >> among them? >> >> The preferences of others are "arbitrary" but yours are not? > > Touché. Arbitrary is fair enough. The experiences out in sysadmland support that (cite https://bettercrypto.org/ ). > I don't hear a lot of opposition to maintaining agility in ciphersuite > preference. <cough> It was discussed about 6 months to a year ago. The alternate -- loosely known as 1TCS or one true cipher suite -- has been proposed on the basis that if it is ever going to be useful, then the place it will be most useful is TCPINC. Because TCPINC is MITMable anyway, why worry so much about the purported benefits of algorithmic agility? However basic IETF consensus or practice is that protocols maintain agility, and there is a coming draft on that. > I am personally in favor of keeping some mechanism > (whether this one or a different one) in place for that purpose, > because it provides much more flexibility than it requires complexity. > > Kyle iang
- [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno-01 Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Ilari Liusvaara
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Mark Handley
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Yoav Nir
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Kyle Rose
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Kent
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Martin Thomson
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Scharf, Michael (Michael)
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Farrell
- [tcpinc] Simultaneous open tie breaking Tero Kivinen
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Kent
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Kent
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Kyle Rose
- Re: [tcpinc] Simultaneous open tie breaking David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Simultaneous open tie breaking Kyle Rose
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Watson Ladd
- Re: [tcpinc] Simultaneous open tie breaking David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… John Leslie
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Kyle Rose
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Kent
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… ianG
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… ianG
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… ianG
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… ianG
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Kyle Rose
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Kyle Rose
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… ianG
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… ianG
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Stephen Farrell
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [tcpinc] Simultaneous open tie breaking Tero Kivinen
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Simultaneous open tie breaking dm-list-tcpcrypt
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… dm-list-tcpcrypt
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Kyle Rose
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… David Mazieres
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… Eric Rescorla
- Re: [tcpinc] Review of draft-bittau-tcpinc-tcpeno… dm-list-tcpcrypt