Re: [tcpm] Increasing the Initial Window - Notes

Aki Nyrhinen <anyrhine@cs.helsinki.fi> Mon, 15 November 2010 17:07 UTC

Return-Path: <anyrhine@cs.helsinki.fi>
X-Original-To: tcpm@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A2513A6BB5 for <tcpm@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:07:23 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -6.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vYtFYVQJbb1c for <tcpm@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:07:22 -0800 (PST)
Received: from mail.cs.helsinki.fi (courier.cs.helsinki.fi [128.214.9.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5016328C1B6 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 09:07:17 -0800 (PST)
Received: from [192.168.10.3] (cs109108001124.pp.htv.fi [109.108.1.124]) (AUTH: PLAIN anyrhine, SSL: TLSv1/SSLv3,256bits,AES256-SHA) by mail.cs.helsinki.fi with esmtp; Mon, 15 Nov 2010 19:07:57 +0200 id 00093E6C.4CE168ED.000061A8
From: Aki Nyrhinen <anyrhine@cs.helsinki.fi>
To: "Scheffenegger, Richard" <rs@netapp.com>
In-Reply-To: <5FDC413D5FA246468C200652D63E627A0B65CAD6@LDCMVEXC1-PRD.hq.netapp.com>
References: <20101110152857.GA5094@hell> <AANLkTi=RzbPbVRDQh7y-ydY-P7H16wDri=8EtXP5QuV3@mail.gmail.com> <20101111012453.GB2691@hell> <29E76BE6-32D9-45AD-85A1-791DAADDE520@ifi.uio.no> <AANLkTik69zRJ7XcWK7ZKCYaHPP0=Z6hnhP1SUnYP=d=8@mail.gmail.com> <824FC88F-4877-45DC-AFD9-E5272ACD7C3E@ifi.uio.no> <4CDBCA4E.8000705@tlc.polito.it> <AANLkTimdoQLBtww720bpJnVAHUuFNTngOp-8Zp2kiqXN@mail.gmail.com> <5FDC413D5FA246468C200652D63E627A0B65CAD6@LDCMVEXC1-PRD.hq.netapp.com>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 20:08:42 +0200
Message-Id: <1289844522.5097.407.camel@papana.nyrhi.net>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Mailer: Evolution 2.22.3.1
Cc: Mike Belshe <mbelshe@google.com>, Marco Mellia <mellia@tlc.polito.it>, Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>, tcpm <tcpm@ietf.org>, tmrg <tmrg-interest@icsi.berkeley.edu>, Matt Mathis <mattmathis@google.com>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] Increasing the Initial Window - Notes
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tcpm>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Nov 2010 17:07:23 -0000

On Thu, 2010-11-11 at 12:27 +0000, Scheffenegger, Richard wrote:

> Traffic rarely comes in via 1GE, and drops down to a 64kbps bottleneck
> link. Only in the direction homeuser->webserver this huge bandwidth
> disparity might be encountered in a single step (but even then I doubt
> it).

> Web server traffic probably runs over a series of shrinking pipes (ie
> 10G/1G/OC12/OC3/T3/T1/64k) - so in the typical web server environment,
> even if each link has only small buffers, the server->homeuser
> direction will less likely show bad effects I would think. Which
> alignes with the data you presented at ICCSG, correct?

i don't know what is common and what is not, but my understanding is
that here, a dsl access network is typically quite fast optical down to
the dslam, which provides dsl access to large number of customers over
their dedicated coppers. on the dslam you have exactly the dslam
manufacturers default magic number of fifo queuing, which is most likely
64KB or 40 packets regardless of the customer sla. this is likely to be
the first place where queuing occurs after the servers uplink, given the
'valley free' characteristic etc.

cable network has a similar story, the amount of cpe served by a single
cmts is large so cmts will sit in a very fast network, so the queuing
takes place there.

for wwan (gprs, edge, 3g, etc.), my experience of queuing delays
suggests 128KB is typical here (worst case queuing delay beyond 10
seconds at 60kbps).

perhaps modem pools aside, i have yet to see the access network were too
little buffering is a problem.

i have been hoping for quite a while that the buffering would go down to
improve interactive performance during bulk transfers but it just does
not seem to happen so i have given up hope. instead, i have started
hoping they keep the defaults because bandwidths are rising. above
10Mbps, 64KB is quite tolerable.

	Aki