Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options
"Caitlin Bestler" <Caitlin.Bestler@neterion.com> Mon, 07 July 2008 19:45 UTC
Return-Path: <tcpm-bounces@ietf.org>
X-Original-To: tcpm-archive@megatron.ietf.org
Delivered-To: ietfarch-tcpm-archive@core3.amsl.com
Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 638BE3A6B1C; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:45:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Original-To: tcpm@core3.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@core3.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B11A53A6B21 for <tcpm@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:45:22 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6q50rvenhoNK for <tcpm@core3.amsl.com>; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:45:17 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from owa.neterion.com (mx.neterion.com [72.1.205.142]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5947D3A6B13 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Mon, 7 Jul 2008 12:45:16 -0700 (PDT)
X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5
Content-class: urn:content-classes:message
MIME-Version: 1.0
Date: Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:45:27 -0400
Message-ID: <78C9135A3D2ECE4B8162EBDCE82CAD7703DC2C9B@nekter>
In-Reply-To: <B5A5E01F9387F4409E67604C0257C71E220E3A@NDJSEVS25A.ndc.nasa.gov>
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
Thread-Topic: [tcpm] TCP Long Options
Thread-Index: AcjbqDxYikw807+KSPevT7OwgdvH3AEuH1OwAAIJBsA=
References: <396556a20807010949i6c6c1d16g41c74e2f78414a92@mail.gmail.com><486A6777.80809@isi.edu><396556a20807011128v27796016k81204b84e78fc25a@mail.gmail.com> <B5A5E01F9387F4409E67604C0257C71E220E3A@NDJSEVS25A.ndc.nasa.gov>
From: Caitlin Bestler <Caitlin.Bestler@neterion.com>
To: "Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-RCN0)[VZ]" <wesley.m.eddy@nasa.gov>, Adam Langley <agl@imperialviolet.org>, Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
Cc: tcpm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/private/tcpm>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Sender: tcpm-bounces@ietf.org
Errors-To: tcpm-bounces@ietf.org
Wesley Eddy wrote: > > I guess the real problem was that the TCPM group didn't ever get > consensus that working on any long options mechanism was important, > so it never got done as a WG item, and it couldn't be done as an > independent submission RFC because TCP is a core protocol. Thus, > 4 years later, it is still not done, and I still get email every > few months from people that stumble upon the draft and want to use > it to enable some other experimental modification that requires a > really long option or two. I think this is what happened with Adam. > He was working on another project, ran across the previous version > of the TCP Long Options draft, and discovered it was what he had been > reinventing. > > In my personal opinion, it's a good idea to have some way to do > long options (any way, not necessarily even this draft) that's > at least published Experimental (off by default), simply because > different groups of people keep thinking they need long options. I > think that's the point that the WG didn't have consensus on in the > past, and may or may not still lack. > The functionality sought with TCP "long options" are already provided with SCTP. The only valid reason cited for not using SCTP for these type of new applications is lack of support from middle-boxes. Any TCP enhancement that does not preserve transparency to existing software and hardware will face all of the problems of SCTP, and probably with fewer benefits. In addition to the middle-box issue that is always cited, there is a special issue with changing the syntax of TCP options that is in the hosts themselves - any form of header/data separation done in existing software or hardware could be broken. This is especially true for LRO/LSO (Large Receive/Send Offload). I strongly suspect that any encoding that provided more option space would prove inherently incompatible with one or more existing middle boxes, host stacks and/or NICs. If such a feature merely provides SOCK_STREAM service between two enhancement-aware endpoints, then why not simply map SOCK_STREAM to SCTP at both ends and leave TCP alone? _______________________________________________ tcpm mailing list tcpm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm
- [tcpm] TCP Long Options Adam Langley
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Adam Langley
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-RCN0)[VZ]
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Caitlin Bestler
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Adam Langley
- Re: [tcpm] TCP Long Options Joe Touch