Re: [tcpm] RFC793bis draft 14 Reserved Bits

Bob Briscoe <in@bobbriscoe.net> Wed, 11 December 2019 18:12 UTC

Return-Path: <in@bobbriscoe.net>
X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8D37120088 for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:12:35 -0800 (PST)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.998
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.998 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=bobbriscoe.net
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bz1wuvOeI3cy for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:12:32 -0800 (PST)
Received: from server.dnsblock1.com (server.dnsblock1.com [85.13.236.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 953A6120118 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 10:12:32 -0800 (PST)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=bobbriscoe.net; s=default; h=Content-Type:In-Reply-To:MIME-Version:Date: Message-ID:From:References:Cc:To:Subject:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=oIIUYj1sYSWhlad+n9X45ewuv7SzxriGx8h3gtYXWo0=; b=xKMPQG8WnWu+6SvIQIrX5vdzl geLPASQWzrvmKXswC8IDnWHRMIAdKD7sPFNHsMNg6ziKLs4j/2rNau6rPk8TcoY5ZLZ8g+ITazcE6 XAvpn1pBZUFQuPHDA8qACwgong8Gl2Eqjqiu8S0XrZEdC/OEwJybRMSVwLlciksBmsIRPpjyKhJHI 0E82MLcuh0pO2g28+53PChrr7MtDjtpE19AwWImA5ZsxpVobTGXh4uz4vGLwGitssj+nxVTdxflSp avH4mlUTjc2hV5XZ0zFUOwcHJ4OlMbAwPoomkBnI+Lw+VRfLGFnFzN2sC7bGOa4RTJ+gt1QdQm4KD KnuYlzmQA==;
Received: from [31.185.128.31] (port=43622 helo=[192.168.0.11]) by server.dnsblock1.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from <in@bobbriscoe.net>) id 1if6TO-00076a-OZ; Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:12:30 +0000
To: Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com>
Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
References: <201911280244.xAS2iX3T010083@gndrsh.dnsmgr.net> <991312DB-9503-4253-8C87-3CBCA6AB99F1@strayalpha.com> <77bade9d-f090-9ec7-cc7a-29e4118321ad@mti-systems.com>
From: Bob Briscoe <in@bobbriscoe.net>
Message-ID: <a85d6e4a-9a91-b287-a1e4-4288a51fe8a1@bobbriscoe.net>
Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:12:30 +0000
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.6.1
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <77bade9d-f090-9ec7-cc7a-29e4118321ad@mti-systems.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------F639596781C1B0196DA0AE61"
Content-Language: en-GB
X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report
X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server.dnsblock1.com
X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org
X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12]
X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - bobbriscoe.net
X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server.dnsblock1.com: authenticated_id: in@bobbriscoe.net
X-Authenticated-Sender: server.dnsblock1.com: in@bobbriscoe.net
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tcpm/B8SfQf_Tgr8RXC5MADhQSorA1Dw>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] RFC793bis draft 14 Reserved Bits
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tcpm/>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 11 Dec 2019 18:12:36 -0000

Wes,

On 04/12/2019 14:59, Wesley Eddy wrote:
>> Perhaps further explicitly:
>>
>> they MUST be ignored by the network and MUST traverse the network 
>> unchanged
>
>
> This clarification seems good to me, and it looks like everyone who's 
> chimed in so far agrees, so I can put it into the upcoming revision.

I think it's important to make this a requirement for middleboxes as 
well as just 'the network'. Where I would define middlebox as a function 
acting on L4 (TCP) fields without being a full implementation of TCP.

I know some middlebox developers will ignore it. But their customers 
(operators) cannot require middleboxes to comply with IETF spec's if we 
don't write what middleboxes should do in our specs.

You might find some of the text in the AccECN spec on middlebox 
requirements useful (and pls send comments if it could be improved):
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-tcpm-accurate-ecn-09#section-3.3



Bob

-- 
________________________________________________________________
Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/