Re: [tcpm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tcpm-1323bis-13.txt

Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu> Mon, 27 May 2013 16:54 UTC

Return-Path: <touch@isi.edu>
X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992D921F96E8 for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 May 2013 09:54:59 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -106.599
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100]
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yIEcNSv5rG0W for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Mon, 27 May 2013 09:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from boreas.isi.edu (boreas.isi.edu [128.9.160.161]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B5C5F21F96A6 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Mon, 27 May 2013 09:54:53 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.97] (pool-71-105-87-221.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net [71.105.87.221]) (authenticated bits=0) by boreas.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id r4RGsAH4019214 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 27 May 2013 09:54:19 -0700 (PDT)
Message-ID: <51A38F9F.4000407@isi.edu>
Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 09:53:51 -0700
From: Joe Touch <touch@isi.edu>
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130509 Thunderbird/17.0.6
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Pasi Sarolahti <pasi.sarolahti@iki.fi>
References: <20130518155753.17946.96581.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <CAK6E8=d_LTZgnGAncdWDAi+7ebd3Lo5aevPeGG0=KSbBMeBhcg@mail.gmail.com> <519A8322.6030405@isi.edu> <26034_1369382276_519F1D83_26034_1735_1_519F1D68.604@uclouvain.be> <E220F4B0-EE27-431C-BCBE-0A0C01C8B0EF@iki.fi>
In-Reply-To: <E220F4B0-EE27-431C-BCBE-0A0C01C8B0EF@iki.fi>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format="flowed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean
X-MailScanner-From: touch@isi.edu
Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org Extensions" <tcpm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-tcpm-1323bis-13.txt
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/tcpm>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 27 May 2013 16:54:59 -0000

On 5/27/2013 3:19 AM, Pasi Sarolahti wrote:
...
> MUST drop all (non-RST) segments without timestamp seems indeed
> In the worst case this might discourage enabling timestamps at all,
> if an implementation wants to be safe against middleboxes as
> described.

We've gone through this multiple times for different issues on this 
mailing list, and have addressed it in the context of this ID in detail.

RST is the *only* way TCP cleans up old connection state. TCP doesn't 
keep things tidy; it cleans up state only when it gets in the way of a 
new connection.

RSTs that happen after a reboot won't necessarily have any state from 
the previous connection. ANY requirement about those RSTs *will* 
interfere with TCP state cleanup, and hosts could end up with the net 
effect of a "memory leak" for all connections that are interrupted by a 
reboot.

That's why RSTs MUST NEVER require anything - even, IMO, a handshake (as 
per RFC 5691).

Joe