From nobody Tue Dec 28 09:17:27 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 876203A17A9 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:17:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.319 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.319 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6u8f19MWzqng for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:17:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7C80F3A17A1 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:17:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=XoJgsv5ABwL9aO0jAHNOjv9RBOOrcXmo5McP/xMfNY0=; b=TzSQB34fqSHEexvMgMIoZtpjlv M5grLxMyIdHo32lta42ZxnT18ubP2Pd7vKy9b1rYgkhE59vYbO/7pL5RjY+FGF6pJDSBPAugmSSyN hQGl3KG2P2eIaBtag+H8FeCJdY6ZrSh9gwR1sV9XjqHTPcnoCyHbdeylij3+h+Y4ls021POZthsS0 qDgxATOGpxyK+0x4SxyZzIamW5L3QkdLhQ+ZD5/9aR7RfTZ/h1iZ+EcrUmmffm+H4CbZ4ZKnsAIj/ IPgcXp433x+y536mtB3g6FBUBsdlUVPqE2bD7prf/ur9jQq6EUeqLjX6mqtd680Gcjdpnlu5uyt87 KxV4XRvQ==; Received: from cpe-172-114-237-88.socal.res.rr.com ([172.114.237.88]:51944 helo=smtpclient.apple) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1n2G67-00EDs2-Hz; Tue, 28 Dec 2021 12:17:19 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3693.20.0.1.32\)) From: "touch@strayalpha.com" In-Reply-To: <61CAD6F9.5090801@btconnect.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 09:17:05 -0800 Cc: Yaakov Stein , Carsten Bormann , rs@netapp.com, tcpm IETF list , braden@isi.edu, Van Jacobson , david.borman@quantum.com, RFC Errata System Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8AEE3211-ED36-4576-9CBF-12B62B50A9FA@strayalpha.com> References: <20211226085938.97471F0F1F@rfc-editor.org> <61C84CAD.8040300@btconnect.com> <5152DC2D-1E40-4011-94D7-EE7CBB851C6E@tzi.org> <6DDBA952-F80F-4A40-B387-7CB975FA0AC2@tzi.org> <0C73598B-89FA-4350-9286-64474BF1AE47@strayalpha.com> <61CAD6F9.5090801@btconnect.com> To: t petch X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3693.20.0.1.32) X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tcpm] [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC7323 (6798) X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2021 17:17:26 -0000 Hi, Tom, > On Dec 28, 2021, at 1:20 AM, t petch wrote: >=20 > On 27/12/2021 17:51, touch@strayalpha.com wrote: >> They are interoperability issues as follows: >>=20 >>> The Timestamps option may appear in any data or segment, = adding >>=20 >> This implies that receivers MUST NOT treat segments with missing or = present timestamps as an error. >=20 > I struggle to see why this does not come under the general presumption = of being liberal in what you accept. If anything, it is a MUST or = SHOULD for the receiver and no MAY is needed. It could, but being conservative in what you do could argue for not = varying behavior as a sender. Additionally, many previously liberal receiver behaviors have been = declared deliberate indicators of an attack because some receivers may = incur extra work as a result. Like all 2119 language, it could have been written as a converse, e.g., = about the receiver this time. I don=E2=80=99t disagree that MAYs often = can be more easily understood as converse MUST NOTs, but there are = exceptions and we have no style guide on this issue AFAICT. Joe=