Re: [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-14: options

Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com> Wed, 31 July 2019 21:22 UTC

Return-Path: <wes@mti-systems.com>
X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C6DFF1200B7 for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:22:04 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.899
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=mti-systems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SdZhTwXGvwSH for <tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:22:02 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-io1-xd2d.google.com (mail-io1-xd2d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6C2012006D for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-io1-xd2d.google.com with SMTP id h6so14355708iom.7 for <tcpm@ietf.org>; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:22:01 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mti-systems-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=vuutupEUqy3OFZUpsKChjdHa3uKhNTcytN/wVDYIpTI=; b=LoFW9w1UUwhNyTfxy7+rbhwB66bM8dbb/SWkVlRvWB8tl46YtJpdTClrqGR1ZumVA+ 8J2+y0SqdxbhG3KRuGOX9H6k6Cx3dSaPZP+UEDs8pDHY5Vfa5p9Pxwq35NzK1Lhoa2Ta rUrhhXvPBTBkbhKXACObPZa/GPSCKDbkbNYfZqAsXZSto9kJT/ZxY6BiS7fHFuFQ8b+W rtQwUhfAJqbsnj+aQp8XRW/iWKXfZe1C6aFgzKIuHV24OVlXK+z9c0bgW83Rp0KV5KDE Du5vdAD/Use69OvxHEX3C5+MxC2eXSuzD7/u1i88SF7H05ekKoEnW3iH+er3YpHPnRO7 Hazw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language; bh=vuutupEUqy3OFZUpsKChjdHa3uKhNTcytN/wVDYIpTI=; b=TWmvaznkOnEhqcH7VoTJwBAy2iKxAQHBDRtWG6G65u5vWlgMctd8TQr8HkBfFUx8j3 bqkeyBKVQVDXtCEk08VdxD8SknYpoYEZJVYIwudMIU39dVXFmnxx+0G/9sEnsCMSd/Kw GB33lA+Ab5ut8VJrat5aIUhQ3FK3OLWRCS9MnXPRlICWe0VJRAls9qASG0J3rx9FoM3x FaazcCEs6zGHhkQYCPtfd2d8pJ3KNSYWfthCKuxNvnNFbSWQ1oQPs3MtM9VQmQUs8bQm RmizqJv7WrctKESxdTCt/Vrwg05yb+evbaudhx/GILS1iHIgF0cqSEqziJI3NsRMFvG2 L9RQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: APjAAAXLlpQMX0H/dm1g+GAdut3NncUCIUtsgOReZQurq8IvZ/3ilI/P XhJMQUb4Q0OzbsjNyulA+VP2nheI
X-Google-Smtp-Source: APXvYqzm4epgrA+1Sq/kEV8Dcj07ttmIriVMx0iwdC9jtGG6PDBUwHD8+DeKHMF7uCdNHexEM4wrrA==
X-Received: by 2002:a02:1948:: with SMTP id b69mr36845670jab.55.1564608120974; Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.1.119] (rrcs-69-135-1-122.central.biz.rr.com. [69.135.1.122]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p10sm86475011iob.54.2019.07.31.14.22.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 31 Jul 2019 14:22:00 -0700 (PDT)
To: Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com>, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: tcpm@ietf.org
References: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B9330312EB710@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <c99ba8aba56ad3e1cebb27e7a47ff4b4@strayalpha.com>
From: Wesley Eddy <wes@mti-systems.com>
Message-ID: <df7b059b-4b9c-5ceb-163f-06d48d70552e@mti-systems.com>
Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 17:21:57 -0400
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.8.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <c99ba8aba56ad3e1cebb27e7a47ff4b4@strayalpha.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------28BAC8B6823966B02593BAA8"
Content-Language: en-US
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/tcpm/FiK8PMZQ4Cswc42ep5d-Mxpb29k>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-rfc793bis-14: options
X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group <tcpm.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/tcpm/>
List-Post: <mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm>, <mailto:tcpm-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2019 21:22:05 -0000

With editor hat on, I fully agree with what Joe said.


On 7/31/2019 2:50 PM, Joe Touch wrote:
>
> Based on the defined scope and approach of 793bis, as stated in its intro:
>
> On 2019-07-30 23:26, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
>
>> Hi Wes,
>>
>> Below some comments about the options as described in Section 3.1:
>>
>> * Consider adding some text to ACK the TCP option space problem. 
>> Adding a pointer to EDO as * an example * (without recommending it) 
>> of how to extend the space for non-SYNs would be useful.
> It would be useful to mention the ongoing work, but not to try to 
> repeat it.
>> * Add an explicit statement about 253/254 as being reserved for 
>> experiments with a strong recommendation to make use of shared ExIDs.
> It would be useful to note their being assigned for that purpose (not 
> quite RESERVED) and to ref 6994 for further details.
> Given the focus of this updated is standards-track, it would be useful 
> to remind developers not to deploy options using those codepoints 
> outside carefully controlled experiments and that they are default to 
> being not enabled in any code not under direct control of the developers.
> However...
>> * What about obsoleting (?) 6994 and incorporating its main 
>> contribution as part of 793bis?
> I disagree. First, 6994 is not being obsoleted per se; second, others 
> refer to its approach for other similar experimental fields. It would 
> be a bad idea to try to "obsolete" it.
> I also don't think it's useful to include these details inside 793bis 
> - these are not details needed for standards-compliant operation (esp. 
> because they shouldn't be used for final standards-track options).
> IMO, 6994 is a lot like congestion control; OK, if not better, as a 
> separate doc.
> Joe