Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in TCP
Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com> Wed, 29 April 2020 21:08 UTC
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From: Neal Cardwell <ncardwell@google.com>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 2020 17:07:51 -0400
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To: "Scheffenegger, Richard" <rs.ietf@gmx.at>
Cc: "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>, Gorry Fairhurst <gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk>, carlesgo@entel.upc.edu, Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
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Subject: Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in TCP
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On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 1:03 PM Scheffenegger, Richard <rs.ietf@gmx.at> wrote: > Eliciting an ACK under certain circumstances, for a timely continuation > of the data transmission / growth of the congestion window is a known > method to reduce network delay. > > E.g. Linux has been using the CWR flag for the purpose of sending out an > immediate ACK by the receiver, since there is an increased chance of a > very small cwnd when the sender had just reduced it's congestion window. > > https://lore.kernel.org/patchwork/patch/970486/ > > and we also found latency improvements doing this when running > ECN-enabled sessions > > https://reviews.freebsd.org/D22670 Yes, agreed. IMHO an explicit ACK-pull mechanism would be very nice for the cwnd<=1 case. In datacenter networks the BDPs tend to be so small, and the numbers of flows can be so large, that it's not unusual for a flow's fair share of the BDP to be one packet or less. If the flows want to maintain low queuing delays, then ideally they would be able to reduce their cwnd to 1 packet (or effectively even lower, with pacing). But the current behavior of TCP delayed ACKs often causes terrible delays with a cwnd of 1. The Linux TCP approach of sending an immediate ACK upon receiving a packet with CWR set (see Richard's link above) helps a lot with this case. But that's a non-standard heuristic, and doesn't help for senders that have a congestion control that does not use ECN CWR signals (e.g. Accurate ECN). Unless I'm missing something, it seems like endpoints using Accurate ECN are going to run into this same latency issue. To avoid this, I guess they may want to either use a cwnd >= 2, or make use of some new explicit ACK-pull mechanism. best, neal
- [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in TCP Scheffenegger, Richard
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Neal Cardwell
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Jonathan Morton
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Carles Gomez Montenegro
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Carles Gomez Montenegro
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Neal Cardwell
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Carles Gomez Montenegro
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Carles Gomez Montenegro
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Neal Cardwell
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Michael Tuexen
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Neal Cardwell
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Matt Mathis
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Ian Swett
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Ian Swett
- Re: [tcpm] On Sender Control of Delayed Acks in T… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tcpm] [EXTERNAL] Re: On Sender Control of De… Praveen Balasubramanian
- Re: [tcpm] [EXTERNAL] Re: On Sender Control of De… Carles Gomez Montenegro
- Re: [tcpm] [EXTERNAL] Re: On Sender Control of De… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [EXTERNAL] Re: On Sender Control of De… Carles Gomez Montenegro
- Re: [tcpm] [EXTERNAL] Re: On Sender Control of De… Joseph Touch
- Re: [tcpm] [EXTERNAL] Re: On Sender Control of De… Carles Gomez Montenegro