Re: [tcpm] WGLC: draft-ietf-tcpm-urgent-data-02.txt

David Borman <dab@weston.borman.com> Thu, 04 March 2010 15:44 UTC

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From: David Borman <dab@weston.borman.com>
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To: Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
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Subject: Re: [tcpm] WGLC: draft-ietf-tcpm-urgent-data-02.txt
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Fernando,

On Mar 3, 2010, at 8:25 PM, Fernando Gont wrote:

> Hi, David,
> 
>> Ok, I did one more close reading of the spec, and I found a few more nits:
>> 
>> 2.1: ...that data that were received as "normal data"
>> 	s/were/was/
And two lines later:
	before those data are consumed
	s/those data are/that data is/
> 
> (disclaimer: English as second language here)
> 
> Isn't "data" plural here?
> 
> Checking my dictionary, while "data" is plural of "datum", it is
> nowadays used as a singular noun, too.
> 
> If I were to s/were/was/, it looks like I should rephrase the text as
> 'that a data byte that was received as "normal data"...'...

The word "data" can be used with either a single or plural verb, it depends on the context.  If it is being used as the plural of multiple discrete pieces of datum, then a plural verb is correct.  But it can also be used in a singular sense, when it is being used to refer to the entire collection of data.  While there may be multiple pieces of datum within the collection, the collection as a whole is still singular.

    If there are 12 cookies for sale, individually wrapped, you would say:
	There are a dozen cookies for sale.
    But if they are being sold in a single package, you would say:
	There is a dozen cookies for sale.

Similarly in this case, it seems to me that it is referring to a single collection of data, not a bunch of individual datum, and that is why I suggested changing it to singular.  Using the singular form also reenforces the fact there is only one urgent pointer at any given time, and all the unread data prior to that pointer is urgent data.  If a new urgent pointer is received, you don't now have two groups of urgent data, it is all grouped together into a single set of urgent data.

A simple test would be to read the sentence substituting either "collection of data" or "pieces of data" in place of "data", and see which seems to make better sense, and that would indicate whether the verb should be singular or plural.

I think I've adequately explained my reasoning, so now you can choose which way to word it.  I'll be fine with whatever you choose.

> 
>> 3.2: this clarification never was reflected into actual implementations
>> 	s/never was/was never/
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> 
> 
>> 4.: hereby we update RFC 793
>> 	s/hereby we/we hereby/
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> 
> 
>> 6: such that "urgent data" are delivered inline
>> 	s/are/is/
> 
> Same as above. :-?

yes.

> 
> 
> 
>> 7: e.g., depnding on the value
>> 	s/depnding/depending/
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> 
>> 
>> A.4: That is, they will be accessible
>> 	s/they/it/
> 
> This one has to do with my use of "data" as plural (i.e., "data bytes")

Both sections A.1 and A.2 have similar wording, and use the singular sense:
	"That is, it will be"
I missed in Section A.3 where it also has "That is, they will be accessible".

It should be consistent in all 4 sections.

			-David Borman


> 
> 
> 
>> A.6: cygwin environment, has shown that
>> 	s/,//
> 
> Fixed.
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Kind regards,
> -- 
> Fernando Gont
> e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@acm.org
> PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1
> 
> 
> 
>