[tcpm] TCPM
Mark Allman <mallman@icir.org> Tue, 02 March 2010 19:43 UTC
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From: Mark Allman <mallman@icir.org>
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Date: Tue, 02 Mar 2010 14:43:15 -0500
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Subject: [tcpm] TCPM
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Folks- I have mostly been lurking lately, but I have read a few of these process-y notes recently and have shortened my life with far too many inane TCPM threads over the years. It is clear some people are frustrated. However, I do not agree that this frustration should be pointed at the chairs or ADs (I wore one of those hats for some of the ongoing work, so I am not unbiased, but...). It seems to me there is frustration from a bunch of angles here---and that people are not considering the full scope. It seems to me there is frustration: - ...that some people are viewed as being overly pedantic. I believe this is true. - ...that some people place too much emphasis on 'running code' and not enough on technical principles. I believe this is true. - ...that some people place too much emphasis on technical principles and not enough on 'running code'. I believe this is true. - ...that a not insignificant portion of the documents brought to the working group and adopted by the working group are poorly written (regardless of the technical merit). I believe this is true. - ...that discussion is sometimes circular with the same comments being made over-and-over. I believe this is true. - ...that technical comments are not responded to with technical counter-arguments. I believe this is true. - ...that sometimes WG decisions are not as clearly stated as they could be. I believe this is true. - ...that TCP is overly hard to change. I believe this is true. - ...that TCP should not be changed unless the Internet would melt otherwise. I believe this is true. I believe all of these things can be frustrating. I can very much sympathize with frustration from all sides. (Note: I take my share of the blame for each of these.) I have a series of suggestions that I think would perhaps provide a better and more timely set of work in this WG. The first set is for the members and the second set is for the chairs: (M.1) Try to rate limit yourself. Send one message / day (say) on each draft. If the point you want to make doesn't seem big enough to blow your one message on then just forget it. Or, send it off-list. (M.2) Label your comments explicitly as "nit" or "small annoyance" or "major technical bone of contention" or some such. I.e., clue the reader in to how serious you think a document failure is. And, then, stick to your classification. There is no use having a knock-down, drag-out fight over a universally agreed small issue. (M.3) Try to not be so damned pedantic. We all have pet-peeves and things we consider "wrong", but in the grand scheme of things don't matter one whit. I cannot stress this enough: if you are arguing about a two word phrase you are **off the effin' rails**. The pedanticness causes myriad problems: from just being overall a no-op on the document to making people tune threads out to making people tune out the entire WG to making people less likely to enter a discussion because of the cost:benefit being tilted far too much towards "cost". Messages sent to the list have an impact on the overall environment and the WG's ability to do business. This impact can be greater than whatever particular point you are trying to convey. (M.4) When a technical point is made, try to answer it with a technical point. There is often an impedance mis-match on this list that leads to loops. E.g., "technical principle [X] suggests we should not do [Y]" followed by "but [Y] is done in OSes A, B and C". These two statements are just talking past each other and so both points remain unaddressed. Running code is a useful data point and can be suggestive of how something will work. But, all running code (and in particular any number of tweaks to TCP) is not a good idea. We have a long RFC on problems with TCP implementations [RFC2525]. Remember: Just because something is used doesn't make it a good idea. Remember: Having something implemented and running offers a valid data point that is not for nothing. I.e., play nicer. But, since I don't really expect you to do so I have some suggestions for the chairs: (C.1) Drum up some document editors. One of the issues is that the pens are in the hands of pedantic partisans. This does not help the WG get its work done because one of the strong principals in the discussion also holds the ability to write the final words. This means that they can prevent some words from being penned and also that it clouds their thinking about the words they do write (that they may not agree with). For each controversial document (which should be determinable from the pre-adoption discussion) find someone who (a) is not hardened on one side or the other and (b) knows how to actually write quality documents to do the bulk of the writing. That doesn't mean the technical originators don't get their authorship. It adds someone to the process who can more easily word a compromise and assert that while it didn't make everyone perfectly happy that in the absence of much WG disagreement the particular language is staying. Note: I am not suggesting someone come in to take over the technical development of the document. I am suggesting someone come in who can put together *the document* that the **WG** develops without having a particularly hardened opinion of the technology. (This more applies to the extensions and not the maintenance---the latter being much less controversial in general.) (C.2) The decision about accepting work items and using a particular document as the starting point are often conflated. These are separate decisions and obviously there has been confusion on this point in some cases. The questions should be posed independently. "Should we take on a work item to developed a TCP extension to do [foo]?" and given that the answer is "yes" then we can ask "should we use [draft-bar] as the basis or work up something new?". In conjunction with naming an independent editor this should make the process much more clear. (C.3) Put big decisions in explicit emails---not at the end of long threads. I.e., use a subject like "TCPM DECISION: draft-foobar" and then in that email you can write "passwd WGLC", "decided to target status Proposed Standard", "named Bob Smith as document editor", etc. This will help people who might have lost interest in a long and winding pedantic thread understand what happened. It will also explicitly call attention to a decision point (which of course can be challenged). (C.4) In the WG status (which is a fabulous tool and David and Wes should be thanked for starting it) particular decisions can be referenced. E.g., "Target: PS (per email: http//....)". (C.5) When there is a particular point of disagreement it could be framed in a new thread and posed to the group by the chairs. "Alice & Bob have reached an impasse. We're looking for input as to whether we should go with [foo] or [bar]." (with sketches of the approaches). This may get more voices in the process than figuring out this impasse at the end of a long and messy thread. In sum, the WG is what we make it. I believe there are some fairly easy things we can each do. But, at this point I think possibly the most important thing we could do would be to put the pens in the hands of people who are a bit outside the fray. FWIW. allman
- [tcpm] TCPM Mark Allman