From nobody Sat Sep 3 02:50:57 2022 Return-Path: X-Original-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: tcpm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CC1EC14CE42; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:50:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.501 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.501 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, KHOP_HELO_FCRDNS=0.398, RCVD_IN_ZEN_BLOCKED_OPENDNS=0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([50.223.129.194]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mJsWMLitcjQl; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:50:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from drew.franken.de (drew.ipv6.franken.de [IPv6:2001:638:a02:a001:20e:cff:fe4a:feaa]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2BF1C14CE37; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 02:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [IPv6:2a02:8109:1140:c3d:8508:cc84:86e5:ad0a]) (Authenticated sender: macmic) by drew.franken.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 134F07220B821; Sat, 3 Sep 2022 11:50:45 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_74802B10-D7E5-4957-B7DE-52419713D766"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.1\)) From: tuexen@fh-muenster.de In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 3 Sep 2022 11:50:43 +0200 Cc: draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus.all@ietf.org, "tcpm@ietf.org Extensions" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0E94A985-516C-4287-9789-50D3A682211B@fh-muenster.de> References: To: Martin Duke X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [tcpm] AD Review of draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-09 X-BeenThere: tcpm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.39 Precedence: list List-Id: TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2022 09:50:57 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_74802B10-D7E5-4957-B7DE-52419713D766 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > On 3. Sep 2022, at 00:52, Martin Duke wrote: >=20 > Thank you for this concise and very readable document. >=20 > My only major concern is the old subject of RFC3465 (ABC) being = Informative, but a downref if we make it Normative. In my opinion, the = document as written is not implementable without 3465 and it should be a = normative reference. >=20 > If I am correct about the status quo, the only part of 3465 that is = not in 5681 (and therefore still Experimental) is the use of L > 1 in = slow start. >=20 > There are three approaches to handling this problem. >=20 > 1. Eliminate L from the spec, and use the RFC5681 slow start formula. = What's bad about this is that IIUC we have no data with L=3D1. But we = could say in Section 5 that the tests also used RFC 3465 with L=3D8 and = the market decide what to do with that. >=20 > 2. Send to the RFC Editor with a normative reference; the doc will be = "done", but will not publish until ABC goes to PS (which is not = imminent, to say the least). >=20 > 3. What I think you've actually done here is standardized RFC3465 = behavior only when combined with CSS (i.e. a partial promotion of ABC). = I think this is the best course of action, but if we're going to do = that, we should go all the way: >=20 > (a) Add a definition of L and a discussion of how to set it -- = basically Sec 2.3 of RFC3465 but presumably with no L=3D2 limit. If = we're going to publish a standard with a higher cap on L we really ought = to have that discussion. >=20 > (b) It can "update" or "obsolete" 3465 depending on whether or not the = WG cares to keep the experimental status of ABC-without-CSS. >=20 > The community apparently has consensus that L > 1, even L > 2, *in = this context* is safe, so I don't see it as reckless to make this = change. >=20 > I'm happy to have a dialogue about this. Hi Martin, I think the intention was (3), at least it was my intention. What about only doing (a) by: i) Remove The following pseudocode integrates Appropriate Byte Counting as described in [RFC3465]. In particular, see [RFC3465] for the definition of the variable L. ii) After the first usage of L: Update the cwnd: cwnd =3D cwnd + min (N, L * SMSS) Add: The positive integer L SHOULD be 1 and MAY be larger than 1. See [RFC3465] for details of choosing L. That way we are consistent with RFC 5681 and allow for higher values. The text in Section 5 gives a clear hint that L > 1 has been used. At least we used the above text in RFC 9260. We could also use See [RFC3465] for a discussion related to the choice of the value of L. or just leave out the reference to RFC3465 at all. I guess people are setting L differently anyway. What do you think? Best regards Michael >=20 > NITS: > (3) s/definition/definitions >=20 > (4.1) "The Inter Packet Arrival algorithm does not perform well." If = there's a useful citation here (or for the results discussed in Section = 5) that would be nice to include. >=20 > (4.1) s/it's concluded that/the algorithm concludes >=20 > Thanks again! > Martin --Apple-Mail=_74802B10-D7E5-4957-B7DE-52419713D766 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEfMw ggUSMIID+qADAgECAgkA4wvV+K8l2YEwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwgYIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMSsw KQYDVQQKDCJULVN5c3RlbXMgRW50ZXJwcmlzZSBTZXJ2aWNlcyBHbWJIMR8wHQYDVQQLDBZULVN5 c3RlbXMgVHJ1c3QgQ2VudGVyMSUwIwYDVQQDDBxULVRlbGVTZWMgR2xvYmFsUm9vdCBDbGFzcyAy MB4XDTE2MDIyMjEzMzgyMloXDTMxMDIyMjIzNTk1OVowgZUxCzAJBgNVBAYTAkRFMUUwQwYDVQQK EzxWZXJlaW4genVyIEZvZXJkZXJ1bmcgZWluZXMgRGV1dHNjaGVuIEZvcnNjaHVuZ3NuZXR6ZXMg ZS4gVi4xEDAOBgNVBAsTB0RGTi1QS0kxLTArBgNVBAMTJERGTi1WZXJlaW4gQ2VydGlmaWNhdGlv 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