Re: [tcpm] [EXTERNAL] Full review of: draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02 (editorial)

Praveen Balasubramanian <pravb@microsoft.com> Tue, 27 July 2021 01:25 UTC

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From: Praveen Balasubramanian <pravb@microsoft.com>
To: "ietf@bobbriscoe.net" <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
CC: "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Full review of: draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02 (editorial)
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Date: Tue, 27 Jul 2021 01:24:36 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tcpm] [EXTERNAL] Full review of: draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02 (editorial)
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Thanks Bob for the review. We published draft-03 addressing some of your comments.

I am having issues replying with inline replies to your email so I am copy pasting.

>> s/doument/document/
Fixed all typos except this one. Will fix in next revision.

>> Is reducing queuing delay (for other flows) also a goal of Hystart++?
It's not an explicit goal. Since this can be used with a loss based congestion controller, we cannot make a blanket statement about reducing queueing delay.

>> Last para of intro seems to be about Hystart, and it doesn't make it clear how Hystart relates to Hystart++:
Rewrote most of this text to make it clear.

>> It seems odd to define some well-known variables (like cwnd), but not others like SND.UNA, SND.NXT, etc.
RFC 5681 doesn't define them either but uses them.

>> cwnd: Would be useful to define the units assumed in the pseudocode later (bytes),
These are verbatim from RFC 5681. We can add a clarification if it helps in the pseudocode section.

>> I suggest:     "The choice of value of L is discussed in RFC 3465."
Fixed to convey this.

>>"normal slow start"
Replaced by standard slow start and a reference to RFC 5681.

>> The word 'congestion' is ambiguous, because it could include delay increase. How about:"If loss or ECN-marking is observed anytime during slow start or CSS, enter congestion avoidance."
Fixed.

>> I suggest you give the actual deployment times, so these two sentences don't keep having to be updated as the draft ages
We have made some edits. Will make this section up to date as we get more data on draft-02.

>> Also, in Linux, Hystart is only implemented for Cubic
Clarified this and added a reference to RFC 8312.

From: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2021 8:43 AM
To: Praveen Balasubramanian <pravb@microsoft.com>
Cc: tcpm@ietf.org; draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus@ietf.org
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Full review of: draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02 (editorial)

Praveen and co-authors.

Thank you for hystart++.
I've sent a separate posting with technical review comments.

Cheers


Bob
==Editorial comments==

Abstract
s/doument/document/
s/overshotting/overshooting
>>>> Fixed

1. Intro
s/pefrormance/performance/

"...lead to overshooting the ideal sending rate and cause significant packet loss"
Also queuing delay? Is reducing queuing delay (for other flows) also a goal of Hystart++?

Last para of intro seems to be about Hystart, and it doesn't make it clear how Hystart relates to Hystart++:
* "HyStart++ adds delay increase..."
   Adds to what?
* "After the HyStart delay algorithm finds an exit point, a Conservative Slow Start (CSS) phase is used"
  But what about Hystart++? does it do CSS too?

Final sentence is not related to the rest of the para about Hystart, so should be a separate para.
3. Definitions
It seems odd to define some well-known variables (like cwnd), but not others like SND.UNA, SND.NXT, etc.

cwnd: Would be useful to define the units assumed in the pseudocode later (bytes), because some implementations use segments.
It's confusing for cwnd to use bytes but LOW_CWND to use segments.

4.2 Algorithm Details

    "The choice of value of L is up to the implementation."
I suggest:
    "The choice of value of L is discussed in RFC 3465."
Reason: RFC3465 doesn't say it's completely up to the implementation - it gives recommendations and advice.

"normal slow start"
I appreciate you were asked to use this word, but... I suggest it's best to define this phrase because, for instance, the normal slow start for Cubic (Hystart) is different from the normal slow start for Reno. It's also a problem finding a good word that means the pre-existing thing. 'Reno slow start' would be more precise than 'normal slow start' (if you mean the one in Reno). Because Cubic is more normal than Reno these days. And saying 'standard' will soon be ambiguous, because Cubic is on its way onto the standards track.


    "If congestion is observed anytime during slow start or CSS, enter congestion avoidance."
The word 'congestion' is ambiguous, because it could include delay increase. How about:
    "If loss or ECN-marking is observed anytime during slow start or CSS, enter congestion avoidance."

5.  Deployments and Performance Evaluations

   As of the time of writing, HyStart++ has been default enabled for all

   TCP connections in Windows for two years.  The original Hystart has

   been default-enabled for all TCP connections in Linux TCP for a

   decade.

I suggest you give the actual deployment times, so these two sentences don't keep having to be updated as the draft ages.
Also, in Linux, Hystart is only implemented for Cubic (the default CC module), so Hystart is not default if a non-default CC module is in use. How about:
In Linux, the original Hystart has been default enabled for
TCP connections using the default congestion control module (Cubic)
for a decade.

Regards


Bob

On 12/07/2021 16:46, internet-drafts@ietf.org<mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.

This draft is a work item of the TCP Maintenance and Minor Extensions WG of the IETF.



        Title           : HyStart++: Modified Slow Start for TCP

        Authors         : Praveen Balasubramanian

                          Yi Huang

                          Matt Olson

  Filename        : draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02.txt

  Pages           : 8

  Date            : 2021-07-12



Abstract:

   This doument describes HyStart++, a simple modification to the slow

   start phase of TCP congestion control algorithms.  Traditional slow

   start can cause overshotting of the ideal send rate and cause large

   packet loss within a round-trip time which results in poor

   performance.  HyStart++ is composed of the delay increase variant of

   HyStart to prevent overshooting of the ideal sending rate, while also

   mitigating poor performance which can result from false positives.





The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7C7d87872da4bc44b8b16508d94d276713%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625654471940975%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=6%2B5UCWDRoooESeKwuY236LzMZeetnuWyVsnau4GLnWI%3D&reserved=0>



There is also an htmlized version available at:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02&data=04%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7C7d87872da4bc44b8b16508d94d276713%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625654471950867%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=XiUnldnrVGSab7DqQLQ6qRXZCVYtubDQ5d1Zxzvi7Ug%3D&reserved=0>



A diff from the previous version is available at:

https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl2%3Ddraft-ietf-tcpm-hystartplusplus-02&data=04%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7C7d87872da4bc44b8b16508d94d276713%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625654471960830%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=AJiW4Hj1Z2eFeiwqmYFpk2jt1N352O2LxbE3j8q6an8%3D&reserved=0>





Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:

ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=ftp%3A%2F%2Fftp.ietf.org%2Finternet-drafts%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7C7d87872da4bc44b8b16508d94d276713%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625654471960830%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=XywaX58KX%2BVkDTHOVEQDHKbR0NqozqtvVeLk5l4S0YI%3D&reserved=0>





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tcpm mailing list

tcpm@ietf.org<mailto:tcpm@ietf.org>

https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftcpm&data=04%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7C7d87872da4bc44b8b16508d94d276713%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625654471970796%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=Tsk%2FmLAKRkI2U3N95ccB%2BZrILbXy1FH2ZuymO3mwM38%3D&reserved=0>




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________________________________________________________________

Bob Briscoe                               http://bobbriscoe.net/<https://nam06.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fbobbriscoe.net%2F&data=04%7C01%7Cpravb%40microsoft.com%7C7d87872da4bc44b8b16508d94d276713%7C72f988bf86f141af91ab2d7cd011db47%7C1%7C0%7C637625654471980743%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C2000&sdata=p4uRO6hnVy7DahbDd4fz9%2Bd83pBTi4I9%2B8uWe9OeZUI%3D&reserved=0>