Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08
<mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> Fri, 28 June 2019 08:15 UTC
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From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
To: "philip.eardley@bt.com" <philip.eardley@bt.com>, "Michael.Scharf@hs-esslingen.de" <Michael.Scharf@hs-esslingen.de>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08
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Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 08:15:16 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08
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Hi Phil, Thank you for the review. Much appreciated. Changes to address almost all your comments (except the protocol model one) can be seen at: https://github.com/obonaventure/draft-tcp-converters/pull/62/files Please see inline. Cheers, Med > -----Message d'origine----- > De : tcpm [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de > philip.eardley@bt.com > Envoyé : jeudi 27 juin 2019 17:58 > À : Michael.Scharf@hs-esslingen.de; tcpm@ietf.org > Cc : tcpm-chairs@ietf.org > Objet : Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 > > I support this document. Thanks to the authors for the nice work. > > Here are some comments /questions and suggested clarifications. > > Questions: > Section 4.1 > " The Client and the Transport Converter MUST send the fixed-sized > header, shown in Figure 9, as the first four bytes of the bytestream." > Are there any other protocols that claim rights on the first bytes of the > bytestream? Even in the context of signalling as indicated by the port# > (to be assigned), is this certain? [Med] I'm not aware of any. The point here is to unambiguously identify Convert data. > > " Data added by the Convert protocol to the TCP bytestream in the > upstream connection is unambiguously distinguished from payload data > in the downstream connection by the Total Length field in the Convert > messages." > Is it required that the Convert data is at a fixed point in the > bytestream? Think you've assumed it's at the start? [Med] Yes, we assume that Convert data is at the start. > (Also, I think you could delete 'upstream' and 'downstream' in the quoted > sentence - in any case, presumably they should both be one or the other) > [Med] Fixed. > Convert protocol: > How do the messages with the Supported TCP Extensions TLV and Connect TLV > relate to each other? Is it required to learn through the "Supported TCP > Extensions" that a Converter supports a particular TCP option before > sending a Connect with that Option? I assume not - and that it's just a > MAY to send the Supported TCP Extensions - as it seems to me like an > optimisation and not too much harm happens if you send a Connect for an > unsupported extension. [Med] Yes, this is optional. The expected behavior is covered by this text: The Info TLV (Figure 12) is an optional TLV which can be sent by a Client to request the TCP extensions that are supported by a Transport Converter. It is typically sent on the first connection that a Client establishes with a Transport Converter to learn its capabilities. Assuming a Client is entitled to invoke the Transport Converter, the latter replies with the Supported TCP Extensions TLV described in Section 4.2.4. > > -------------- > Suggested clarifications - significant:- > [Med] Snipped. Will cover this one in a separate message > ---------------- > Suggested clarifications - other:- > Section 1: > > Para " There are some situations..." I think you could slightly adjust the > mention of PEPs. For example, a PEP that re-spaces TCP ACKs doesn't have > anything to do with the problem mentioned in the first part of the para > (about the difficulty of ensuring both clients and servers are upgraded) [Med] What about updating it as follows: OLD: Performance Enhancing Proxies [RFC3135], and other service functions have been deployed as solutions to improve TCP performance over links with specific characteristics. NEW: Some assistance from the network to make use of these features is valuable. For example, Performance Enhancing Proxies [RFC3135], and other service functions have been deployed as solutions to improve TCP performance over links with specific characteristics. > > Para " More recently, experimentation" I found the first sentence hard to > parse. [Med] Will reword. The para seems to use latency to refer to two things (without > pointing this out): packet forwarding latency and set-up signalling > latency > > List of bullets about what a transport converter achieves. I 'd add one to > say it achieves 0-RTT - and to explain what 0-RTT means (quite a bit later > before the reader discovers this) (and expand the RTT abbreviation) > [Med] Good point. This will be introduced before that bullet list since that list is built in reference to RFC1919. > Section 3: > Figure 2: explain "R" [Med] Fixed. This refers to "router". > > " Further, the architecture allows for making use of new TCP extensions > even if those are not supported by a given server." > I find the sentence a bit awkward. Maybe: Further, the architecture > enables the use of new TCP extensions between the client and Transport > Converter when they are not supported by a server. [Med] What about the following: Furthermore, the architecture enables the use of new TCP extensions by the clients even if those are not supported by a given server. This is achieved owing to the assistance of a Transport Converter. > > Figure 3: I didn't understand why the note is needed "* TLS messages > exhanged between the Client and the Server are not shown." [Med] This is to make it clear that the TLS connection is handled directly between the client and the server. The converter does not interfere with that. > > Para under figure 3: This mentions Connect TLVs, which is a mystery > concept at this stage. [Med] changes to "Convert messages". > > Section 1 mostly says TCP extensions, with an occasional TCP options. Be > consistent? [Med] OK > > Section 3.2: > Figure 5: in the figure title there's "(1)" - what does this mean or is it > a typo? [Med] Fixed. We used to have two figures with the same title (1) and (2). > > Para " A Transport Converter MAY operate" > "external address" - what does 'external' mean? [Med] Changed to "source". "external" was used in reference to the source address of a packet as relayed by a converter. This is further discussed in 3.4. > > Section 4 > Should there be a new Section 4.1 that explains the use of port # (to be > assigned) to identify Convert protocol messages? [Med] Fixed. > > S4.1 title > "fixed header" - is "fixed" needed? [Med] It is fixed because it is present in all convert messages. Do you prefer "common" ? > > Figure 10: > I think the first "(optional)" should be deleted (ie in bytes 3 & 4) [Med] Deleted the second one. > > " In general > zero padding MUST be added if the value's length in bytes can not be > expressed as 2+(4 * n)." > better, something like: If necessary, Value MUST be padded with zeroes so > that the length of the TLV is a multiple of 32 bits. > [Med] That is better. Thanks. > " As a general rule, when an error is encountered an Error TLV with the > appropriate error code MUST be returned by the Transport Converter." > 'As a general rule' seems to conflict with 'MUST' > [Med] Fixed. > " Transport Converter SHOULD include in this > list the TCP options that it accepts from Clients and that it > includes the SYN packets that it sends to initiate connections." > I couldn't parse the second part of the sentence ("and that it...") > [Med] Changed to: " A Transport Converter SHOULD include in this list the TCP options that it accepts from Clients; these options are included by the Transport Converter in the SYN packets that it sends to initiate connections." Better? > " The list of Supported TCP Extension is padded with 0 to end on a 32 > bits boundary." > Replace: The list of Supported TCP Extensions MUST be padded with 0 to end > on a 32 > bits boundary. > [Med] Deal! > Section 6 > This section actually only discusses one type of middlebox (removes SYN). > Can the discussion be widened slightly [Med] This section only focuses on SYN/SYN-ACK because these are used by the Convert protocol. Do you have in mind a particular case (specific to the Convert protocol) that may be problematic? - or maybe simply say that if > middlebox interference detected, then MUST stop using the Converter (with > SYN removal given as an example)? > > Not yet read Section 7 onwards, comments to follow. > > Section 10 Change log > There's lots of really useful info about why the design is as it is (eg > the use of TLV rather than Options). It would be a shame if this was lost > from the rfc - please can info be extracted into a section "how > implementation experiences have influenced design decisions" or similar? > > Thanks > phil > > -----Original Message----- > From: tcpm [mailto:tcpm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Scharf, Michael > Sent: 25 June 2019 17:39 > To: tcpm@ietf.org Extensions <tcpm@ietf.org> > Cc: tcpm-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 > > Hi all, > > draft-ietf-tcpm-converters has been discussed and reviewed quite a bit. > > Therefore, this e-mail starts a working group last call (WGLC) for draft- > ietf-tcpm-converters-08 that will run until ***July 14, 2019***. > > Please let us know if there are any remaining open issues regarding this > document. Statements supporting publication are also welcome. In absence > of feedback we will assume that the TCPM consensus is to move the document > to the IESG. As discussed in the past, the intended status of the document > is experimental. > > Thanks a lot > > Michael > (TCPM co-chair) > > _______________________________________________ > tcpm mailing list > tcpm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm > > _______________________________________________ > tcpm mailing list > tcpm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tcpm
- [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 Christoph Paasch
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 Adi Masputra
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 Florin Baboescu
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 philip.eardley
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 mohamed.boucadair
- [tcpm] IPR poll for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 philip.eardley
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [tcpm] IPR poll for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [tcpm] IPR poll for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters SungHoon Seo
- Re: [tcpm] IPR poll for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters Olivier Bonaventure
- Re: [tcpm] IPR poll for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters Benjamin Hesmans
- Re: [tcpm] IPR poll for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters Sri Gundavelli (sgundave)
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 philip.eardley
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 philip.eardley
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 philip.eardley
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 Scharf, Michael
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 mohamed.boucadair
- Re: [tcpm] WGLC for draft-ietf-tcpm-converters-08 Scharf, Michael