Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-tcp-timestamps-03
Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar> Tue, 30 March 2010 03:06 UTC
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Date: Tue, 30 Mar 2010 00:06:35 -0300
From: Fernando Gont <fernando@gont.com.ar>
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Cc: Christian Huitema <huitema@microsoft.com>, "tcpm@ietf.org" <tcpm@ietf.org>, "mallman@icir.org" <mallman@icir.org>
Subject: Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-tcp-timestamps-03
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Joe, > The 03 draft focused on creating an algorithm that prevented guess-based > attacks. No. Version -03 focuses on creating an algorithm such that timestamps are monotonically-increasing. Another property of the algorithm is that timestamps are hard to guess. Finally, the doc proposes an algorithm for improved handling of SYN segments. See the abstract. It's not a "protecting TCP against blid attacks via tcp timestamps" at all. > The discussion, as far as I can tell, has focused on the most peripheral > part of 03 - the use of TS to cut TIME_WAIT. Peripheral? Please compare the length of Section 2 and Section 3. Most of the I-D is about processing SYN segments, rather than about generating timestamps. > IMO, that's a sufficient change that we're no longer considering a mere > evolution of 03. The title, abstract, and most of the discussion will > change. I disagree. But won't continue arguing on this one. You have apposed to this I-D since the thread was started. Hopefully the chairs have noted that. But hey have also noted the rest of the people, that did support it. > Other points need to be addressed, notably: > > - are TS values already sufficiently monotonic, or is > an alg needed? What's "sufficiently monotonic"? There's no requirement for monotonically-increasing timestamps across connections. > - is per-socketpair state needed to support monotonicity? Obviously not. It *is* useful for the algorithm currently proposed in the I-D. > - interaction with SYN cookies Note sure what you mean. Obviously, if timestamps are "on", you can take advantage of this. If not, no. > - corner cases (when not monotonic, whether that can be > known, when it's supported on only one side, etc.) This has all been clarified. > - whether this depends on knowing which end will close the > connection first at SYN time I have already clarified this. It doesn't matter who ends-up closing the connection. > I don't feel discussion on the mailing list is sufficient to consider > the entirety of this proposal, and not just whether it's possible, but > whether it's necessary. Joe, you have been opposed to this I-D, are opposed to this I-D, and will be opposed to this I-D. Point taken. Can the rest of us, if we agree, get some work done? P.S.: Again, nobody is shipping the I-D for publication as an RFC. So don't expect the I-D to be perfect at this point. Thanks, -- Fernando Gont e-mail: fernando@gont.com.ar || fgont@acm.org PGP Fingerprint: 7809 84F5 322E 45C7 F1C9 3945 96EE A9EF D076 FFF1
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Alfred Hönes
- [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-tcp-t… Eddy, Wesley M. (GRC-MS00)[ASRC AEROSPACE CORP]
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Anantha Ramaiah (ananth)
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Alfred Hönes
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… L.Wood
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… John Heffner
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Alexander Zimmermann
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Alexander Zimmermann
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Christian Huitema
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Joe Touch
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Mark Allman
- Re: [tcpm] poll for adoption of draft-gont-tcpm-t… Fernando Gont
- Re: [tcpm] draft-ietf-tcpm-1323bis Scheffenegger, Richard