Re: [tcpm] [tsvwg] Cross-area alignment on "L4S and RACK"

"Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com> Wed, 07 November 2018 02:01 UTC

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From: "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>
Cc: tcpm IETF list <tcpm@ietf.org>, "tsvwg@ietf.org" <tsvwg@ietf.org>, "Black, David" <David.Black@dell.com>
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To: Spencer Dawkins at IETF <spencerdawkins.ietf@gmail.com>, "Michael.Scharf@hs-esslingen.de" <Michael.Scharf@hs-esslingen.de>
Thread-Topic: [tsvwg] Cross-area alignment on "L4S and RACK"
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Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2018 02:01:06 +0000
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Subject: Re: [tcpm] [tsvwg] Cross-area alignment on "L4S and RACK"
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> As far as I understand, the DETNET WG in RTG area has quite some uses cases for ultra-low latency transport - in particular also with bounded jitter.
> And some of these applications (e.g. using UDP) apparently may not be able to tolerate *any* out-of-order packet delivery.

I’m the Transport Technical Advisor to the DETNET WG – the envisioned DETNET data path structure is similar to Intserv or policy-based routing- a full 5-tuple match (2 x addr, protocol 2 x port) on all inbound traffic picks off the flows that requires deterministic forwarding and diverts them into a DETNET data path that maintains per-flow state before the Diffserv logic looks at the DSCP or L4S logic  looks at ECT(1) to figure out what to do with the (non-deterministic) rest of the traffic which is handled as flow aggregates (no per-flow state in forwarding path).

This could be made clearer in their drafts …

Thanks, --David

From: tsvwg [mailto:tsvwg-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Spencer Dawkins at IETF
Sent: Tuesday, November 6, 2018 5:14 PM
To: Michael.Scharf@hs-esslingen.de
Cc: tcpm IETF list; tsvwg@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [tsvwg] Cross-area alignment on "L4S and RACK"


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Michael,

On Wed, Nov 7, 2018 at 2:20 AM Scharf, Michael <Michael.Scharf@hs-esslingen.de<mailto:Michael.Scharf@hs-esslingen.de>> wrote:
A comment on the TCPM presentation "L4S and RACK":

As far as I understand, the DETNET WG in RTG area has quite some uses cases for ultra-low latency transport - in particular also with bounded jitter. And some of these applications (e.g. using UDP) apparently may not be able to tolerate *any* out-of-order packet delivery.

So perhaps some cross-area alignment on ulta-low-latency application requirements would be useful?

Michael
(who recently had to review draft-ietf-detnet-architecture)

I'm not a responsible AD for DETNET, but we approved https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-detnet-use-cases/ within the last couple of weeks.

My understanding is that at least some of the use cases have that intolerance for out-of-order delivery (among other characteristics). That was certainly the case when we chartered DETNET.

I'm sure TSV will do the right thing ;-)

Spencer