Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-forming BoF proposal cut-off approaching
John Leslie <john@jlc.net> Sun, 22 May 2016 19:17 UTC
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Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 15:17:00 -0400
From: John Leslie <john@jlc.net>
To: Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no>
Message-ID: <20160522191700.GA8413@verdi>
References: <573C564E.1090201@bobbriscoe.net> <20160518170612.GA56178@verdi> <573DA385.8020703@bobbriscoe.net> <20160521233147.GA6947@verdi> <9C86240F-3E2B-4534-9140-48D8286176A7@ifi.uio.no>
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Cc: Bob Briscoe <ietf@bobbriscoe.net>, TCP Prague List <tcpPrague@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-forming BoF proposal cut-off approaching
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Michael Welzl <michawe@ifi.uio.no> wrote: > (snip) > >>> {Note 1} Some of the deliverables would be brought to tcpm anyway, >>> because they are important for all TCP-derived congestion controls, not >>> just "TCP Prague". >>> For instance, the following two RTT-related items are particularly >>> important for L4S/"TCP Prague", but they are also important updates to >>> the base TCP cc [RFC5681] too. >>> 3-4) Scaling TCP's Congestion Window for Small Round Trip Times >>> 3-5) Reduce TCP / SCTCP / TCP Prague RTT-dependence >> >> This is almost off-topic. :^( >> >> The "small round-trip times" issue is pretty fundamental: TCP _doesn't_ >> reduce its congestion window below 2 (packets); so with enough classic-TCP >> senders, no AQM can possibly hold latency low. Bob has proposed a change; >> but it's a change to _every_ classic TCP sender. Myself, I'd rather not >> worry about this just yet... >> >> RTT-dependence is an inseparable part of TCP-as-we-know-it. I'd _much_ >> rather not tilt at that windmill quite yet??? > > So here???s the +1. I can???t see how it helps this work if we discuss > all the possible problems of the world and how it can possibly solve them. That's a trifle unfair to Bob: he included a bunch of things which are actually prerequsites to L4S working well. I don't disagree with Bob that these are important: I merely don't want to tie ourselves in knots trying to solve them at the outset. > Opening many cans of various worms - wouldn???t it be better to keep > things more focused? Exactly! I listed the things I think are necessary to show sufficient results to get folks believing the goal is worth the effort. I'd like to concentrate our efforts there; and get around-to the other details after we can show some big-I-Internet results. -- John Leslie <john@jlc.net>
- [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-forming Bo… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Marie-Jose Montpetit
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… marcelo bagnulo braun
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… John Leslie
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE)
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… John Leslie
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Mirja Kühlewind
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Bob Briscoe
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… John Leslie
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… John Leslie
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Michael Welzl
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Michael Welzl
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… gorry
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… John Leslie
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Michael Welzl
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… John Leslie
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… John Leslie
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Gorry Fairhurst
- Re: [tcpPrague] RTT-(in)dependent throughput De Schepper, Koen (Nokia - BE)
- Re: [tcpPrague] Volunteers pls: L4S non-WG-formin… Spencer Dawkins at IETF