Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models (was RE: YANG prefix for flexi-grid (was RE: FW: Proposal for YANG model prefix naming))
Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> Wed, 23 June 2021 12:09 UTC
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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>, Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>, CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>, "teas@ietf.org" <teas@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models (was RE: YANG prefix for flexi-grid (was RE: FW: Proposal for YANG model prefix naming))
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Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2021 12:08:53 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/0u08GlCfR7pq9tYlcFUzdbr7caU>
Subject: Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models (was RE: YANG prefix for flexi-grid (was RE: FW: Proposal for YANG model prefix naming))
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Hi Tom, I agree with the argument against the hyphen, it makes sense. Regarding "tnl" vs "tn" I still believe "tn" could be too misleading. Maybe "tnl" without hyphen could be a good compromise between length and comprehensibility? BR Daniele > -----Original Message----- > From: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> > Sent: den 22 juni 2021 12:19 > To: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; Italo Busi > <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>; teas@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models (was RE: YANG prefix for > flexi-grid (was RE: FW: Proposal for YANG model prefix naming)) > > From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> > Sent: 22 June 2021 10:20 > Hi all, > > If adding one character is not a big issue I would suggest to go for -tnl, as -tn > might cause ambiguity with a lot of other items, e.g. transport network, transit > node, termination node...while the only thing I can think of for "tnl" is tunnel. > I would reject all the other options for the good reasons brought up by Tom. > > <tp> > > Bear in mind that a prefix can appear 10 or more times in the path of an > augment so additional characters mount up. The choice of the terse te: and > tet:, whether by accident or design, was inspired. This also argues against the > hyphen in the prefix as there are likely to be lots of hyphens in identifiers coming > after the prefix in a YANG path and having a hyphen before the colon of the > prefix may confuse ie augment /nw:networks/nw:network/nw:node/tet:te > /tet:information-source-entry > /tet:connectivity-matrices > /tet:connectivity-matrix/tet:path-properties > /tet:path-route-objects/tet:path-route-object > /tet:type/tet:label/tet:label-hop/tet:te-label > /tet:technology: > is better than, hyphens inserted, augment > /nw:networks/nw:network/nw:node/te-t:te > /te-t:information-source-entry > /te-t:connectivity-matrices > /te-t:connectivity-matrix/te-t:path-properties > /te-t:path-route-objects/te-t:path-route-object > /te-t:type/te-t:label/te-t:label-hop/te-t:te-label > /te-t:technology: > > Tom Petch > > BR > Daniele > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: CCAMP <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tom petch > > Sent: den 22 juni 2021 11:08 > > To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org>; > > teas@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models (was RE: YANG > > prefix for flexi-grid (was RE: FW: Proposal for YANG model prefix > > naming)) > > > > From: CCAMP <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Italo Busi > > <Italo.Busi@huawei.com> > > Sent: 21 June 2021 19:52 > > > > Let's continue the discussion about the prefix to be used for tunnel > > models, adding also TEAS WG since this discussion impact also the > > ietf-te model > > > > There have been some negative comments from Tom against the current > > prefix (i.e., "te" which would also lead to "otn", "wson" and "flexg" > > in CCAMP tunnel > > models) which is broader than just the te-tunnel > > > > The letter 't' is not possible because it has been already used for > > topology (i.e., "tet", "otnt", "wsont", "flexgt") > > > > The only option to abbreviate tunnel I have seen so far are tn or tnl > > with or without the hyphen: "tetn", "te-tn", "tetnl" or "te-tnl" > > > > I have a slight preference for "te-tnl", which would lead to "otn-tnl", "wson- > tnl" > > and "flexg-tnl" in CCAMP, but I am open to other opinions or better > > proposals > > > > I have only a strong preference to close this issue as quickly as > > possible :) > > > > Any other opinion or better suggestions? > > > > <tp> > > I am losing track of the context, which modules are involved, but > > assuming it is WSON, OTN. FLEXG (MW?, DWDM?) then I would prefer > > '-tn' to '-tnl' as it is shorter and to 'tn' as it is easier to > > read. 'tl' 'to' can be misread as 't1' 't0' in some typeface. ('tx' I often use but > usually as transport or transmit not tunnel). > > 'tu' I reject because it is consonants that are wanted not vowels in > > such abbreviations, > > > > There are plenty of other topo in TEAS but I do not know which if any > > will have a matching tunnel. > > > > Tom Petch > > > > Italo > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com] > > > Sent: giovedì 1 aprile 2021 17:40 > > > To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org> > > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] YANG prefix for flexi-grid (was RE: FW: > > > Proposal for YANG model prefix naming) > > > > > > From: CCAMP <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Italo Busi > > > <Italo.Busi@huawei.com> > > > Sent: 31 March 2021 16:49 > > > > > > It seems that addressing this issue on a step by step has worked > > > well for the topology models > > > > > > Let's then consider a second question/convention about the prefix to > > > use for flexi-grid YANG model > > > > > > I think that "flexi-grid" (which would lead to "flexi-gt" for > > > flexi-grid Topology) is a bit too long for a prefix > > > > > > I have not found any better option to shorten flexible other than > > > flexi or flex. I think f is really too short to be meaningful and fx > > > can be misunderstood as fixed as well > > > > > > Therefore, I think we can shorten it to either "flexig" or "flexg" > > > (which would lead to "flexigt" or "flexgt" respectively for > > > flexi-grid > > > Topology) > > > > > > I have a slight preference for the latter option ("flexg" leading to > > > "flexgt" for flexi-grid Topology) but I am open to other opinions or > > > better proposals > > > > > > Any other opinion? > > > > > > <tp> > > > I prefer flexg of the options you suggest. > > > > > > There is something un-English about flexig, it just sounds wrong, > > > and flexigt is worse. > > > > > > (In passing, flex-g looks wrong to me with just one letter after the > > > hyphen, it needs two). > > > > > > Tom Petch > > > > > > Thanks, Italo > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: tom petch [mailto:ietfc@btconnect.com] > > > > Sent: lunedì 15 marzo 2021 13:00 > > > > To: Daniele Ceccarelli > > > > <daniele.ceccarelli=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; > > > > CCAMP <ccamp@ietf.org> > > > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] FW: Proposal for YANG model prefix naming > > > > > > > > From: CCAMP <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Daniele > > > > Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org> > > > > Sent: 11 March 2021 16:38 > > > > > > > > as previously anticipated during the CCAMP session today, we will > > > > ask the RFC editor to update the YANG model prefix for the WSON > > > > topology to > > > "wsont". > > > > > > > > Many thanks for sharing your thoughts and participating to the discussion. > > > > > > > > <tp> > > > > I await the minutes with interest! > > > > > > > > Meanwhile ccamp-flexigrid-yang is plain wrong. Under IANA it > > > > registers flexi- grid-topology whereas the when statements have > > > > tet-flexig which I would characterise as ugly and uglier! And I > > > > seem to recall this is not my first post on the prefix in this I-D > > > > which clearly is not ready for Last Call:-( > > > > > > > > Tom Petch > > > > > > > > > > > > Daniele > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: CCAMP <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Daniele > > > > Ceccarelli > > > > Sent: den 15 februari 2021 16:17 > > > > To: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>; Italo Busi > > > > <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>; > > > adrian@olddog.co.uk > > > > Cc: rkrejci@cesnet.cz > > > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Proposal for YANG model prefix naming > > > > > > > > Thanks for your feedback Tom. > > > > > > > > Working group, other opinions? > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > Daniele > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com> > > > > Sent: den 12 februari 2021 13:29 > > > > To: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com>; Daniele Ceccarelli > > > > <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>; > > > > adrian@olddog.co.uk > > > > Cc: rkrejci@cesnet.cz > > > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Proposal for YANG model prefix naming > > > > > > > > From: Italo Busi <Italo.Busi@huawei.com> > > > > Sent: 12 February 2021 09:02 > > > > > > > > Thanks Daniele > > > > > > > > FYI: we are discussing these options also with TEAS experts: > > > > > > > > https://protect2.fireeye.com/v1/url?k=d3d01972-8c4b2077-d3d059e9- > > > > 86959e472243-ddf7de26918206cd&q=1&e=586b5fcf-a971-4d25-81f3- > > > > 4c64316f0395&u=https%3A%2F%2Fgithub.com%2Ftsaad- > > > > dev%2Fte%2Fissues%2F125 > > > > > > > > Let's see if we can get an agreement at least for these two drafts > > > > which are in RFC queue: > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-layer0-types > > > > > ietf-layer0-types (l0-types) --->(l0-types) > > > > > > > > I think we can agree with this prefix since all the proposals are aligned. > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-yang > > > > > ietf-wson-topology (wson) --->(wson-topo) > > > > > > > > Here, I think we have two candidates: wson-topo and wsont > > > > > > > > I have a slight preference for wsont since it is aligned with tet > > > > and nt prefix conventions used in RFC8795 and RFC8345 but I can > > > > accept wson-topo (it could be seen as aligned with wson-tunnel or > > > > wson-tnl prefix > > > conventions). > > > > > > > > What do you think? > > > > > > > > <tp> > > > > Since TEAS already has its tanks on the lawn, I would go for wsont. > > > > > > > > Adrian expressed a preference for ...topo but I think that wrong > > > > as it gets too long IMHO as with ethtetopo or else eth-te-topo > > > > > > > > Tom Petch > > > > Italo > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Daniele Ceccarelli > > > > > [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com] > > > > > Sent: giovedì 4 febbraio 2021 09:14 > > > > > To: tom petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>; 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>; > > > > > adrian@olddog.co.uk > > > > > Cc: rkrejci@cesnet.cz > > > > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Proposal for YANG model prefix naming > > > > > > > > > > Tom, Adrian, all, > > > > > > > > > > The L0 types and the WSON topology drafts are now on hold. We > > > > > can include them in the updated prefix naming. > > > > > The RFC editor will delay processing these documents until the > > > > > updated versions are available. The AD (John or Deborah) will > > > > > need to approve the changes. > > > > > > > > > > This will also affect the IANA registries, they have been informed as well. > > > > > > > > > > BR > > > > > Daniele > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: CCAMP <ccamp-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of tom petch > > > > > Sent: den 3 februari 2021 17:44 > > > > > To: 'CCAMP' <ccamp@ietf.org>; adrian@olddog.co.uk > > > > > Cc: rkrejci@cesnet.cz > > > > > Subject: Re: [CCAMP] Proposal for YANG model prefix naming > > > > > > > > > > From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> > > > > > Sent: 03 February 2021 12:12 > > > > > > > > > > Hi Tom, > > > > > > > > > > >> Proposal for YANG model prefix naming. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Radek and then Tom raised the issue of consistency in prefix > > > > > >> naming based > > > > > on > > > > > >> the fact that the TE topology model uses 'tet' and the TE > > > > > >> topology state model uses 'tet-s' > > > > > > > > > > > > I think that the starting point is a list of I-D/RFC and I see > > > > > > some > > > > > glitches in your list. > > > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-client-signal-yang probably should be > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-client-signal-yang > > > > > > > > > > Yes, typo. > > > > > > > > > > > I see two flexigrid I-D but you only list one > > > > > > > > > > I'm at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ccamp/documents/ looking > > > > > at extant WG documents. > > > > > Looks like draft-ietf-ccamp-flexigrid-media-channel-yang expired > > > > > almost 6 months ago. > > > > > > > > > > > wson-yang and l1types have been approved by the IESG so I > > > > > > regard those as > > > > > fixed > > > > > > points that it is now too late to change and which we should > > > > > > build around > > > > > > > > > > Well, colour me confused. > > > > > I thought this whole thing came up in debate of the WSON YANG model. > > > > > If that debate is now closed, let's all move on and not worry > > > > > about any of this any more. > > > > > > > > > > > I have seen more than one wson model > > > > > > > > > > There's an information model in draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-iv-info, > > > > > but no data model. > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-tunnel-model expired almost 6 months ago > > > > > > > > > > > microwave seems to be missing > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-mw-topo-yang expired almost 18 months ago > > > > > > > > > > <tp> > > > > > > > > > > Adrian, > > > > > > > > > > The progress of I-D in the routing area can be erratic. The > > > > > fact that the IETF has expired the I-D does not mean that it > > > > > will not come back to life - a whole raft of I-D that were > > > > > produced in a rush just before the IETF meeting have just > > > > > expired 6 months later and some are now being resuscitated, > > > > > others will be in future, others will not. Some re-appear > > > > years later when their time has come. > > > > > > > > > > To me, an expired draft says that someone was interested enough > > > > > to put in a lot of work and even if that work is not current, > > > > > then it would be a short- sighted naming convention, although > > > > > well in keeping with the traditions of the IETF, not to cater for such work > in future. > > > > > > > > > > For myself, I like names that start with the most important > > > > > property and for me, that is WSON. OTN, RSVP and so on, and that > > > > > is the basis on which I reviewed them, and not the fact that > > > > > they are te - the rival proposal is for te to be the centre of > > > > > the universe around which everything revolves, regardless of > > > > > which WG > > > > > - TEAS, CCAMP, ... -it > > > may be in. > > > > I am not a fan of this approach. > > > > > > > > > > Tom Petch > > > > > > > > > > CCAMP is currently working on plenty of YANG models, so it might > > > > > be worth stepping back and getting the prefixes consistent > > > > > across all of our > > > > work. > > > > > I'm not sure this is the most important thing on our list, and > > > > > perhaps it would be better to discuss the colour of the bike > > > > > shed, but to make sure that we do this just once, here is my attempt. > > > > > > > > > > My conclusion is that, although it would be nice to be > > > > > consistent with using just a suffix of 't' to indicate > > > > > 'topology', this becomes messy with some of the longer names, > > > > > and it is clearer to always > > use 'topo' > > > > > (leaving the TE topology model as the odd one out). > > > > > > > > > > This proposal only extends to CCAMP YANG models, and I don't > > > > > think this list can debate the wider scoping of prefixes, but I > > > > > think it would extend well enough. > > > > > > > > > > The list shows... > > > > > Draftname > > > > > Modelname (currentprefix)--->(proposedprefix) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-client-signal-yang > > > > > ietf-eth-tran-service (ethtsvc)--->(etht-svc) > > > > > ietf-eth-tran-types > > > > > (etht-types) --- > > > > > >(etht-types) ietf-trans-client-service (clntsvc) > > > > > >--->(tclnt-svc) > > > > > >ietf-trans-client- > > > > > svc-types (clntsvc-types) --->(tclnt-svc-types) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-dwdm-if-param-yang > > > > > ietf-ext-xponder-wdm-if > > > > > (ietf-ext-xponder-wdm-if)--->(ext-xponder-wdm-if) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-flexigrid-yang > > > > > ietf-flexi-grid-topology (flexi-grid-topology) > > > > > --->(flexi-grid-topo) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-l1csm-yang > > > > > ietf-l1csm (l1csm) --->(l1csm) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-layer0-types > > > > > ietf-layer0-types (l0-types) --->(l0-types) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-layer1-types > > > > > ietf-layer1-types (l1-types) --->(l1types) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-optical-impairment-topology-yang > > > > > ietf-optical-impairment-topology (optical-imp-topo) > > > > > --->(optical-imp-topo) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-topo-yang > > > > > ietf-otn-topology (otntopo) --->(otn-topo) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-otn-tunnel-model ietf-otn-tunnel (otn-tunnel) > > > > > --->(otn-tunnel) > > > > > > > > > > draft-ietf-ccamp-wson-yang > > > > > ietf-wson-topology (wson) --->(wson-topo) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > CCAMP mailing list > > > > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > = > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > CCAMP mailing list > > > > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > CCAMP mailing list > > > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > CCAMP mailing list > > > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > CCAMP mailing list > > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CCAMP mailing list > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp > > > > _______________________________________________ > > CCAMP mailing list > > CCAMP@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ccamp
- [Teas] YANG prefix for Tunnel models (was RE: [CC… Italo Busi
- Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models … tom petch
- Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models … Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models … tom petch
- Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models … Belotti, Sergio (Nokia - IT/Vimercate)
- Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models … Daniele Ceccarelli
- Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models … Tarek Saad
- Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models … Italo Busi
- Re: [Teas] [CCAMP] YANG prefix for Tunnel models … Daniele Ceccarelli