Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct used for slice realization
John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net> Wed, 11 August 2021 15:33 UTC
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Kiran Makhijani <kiran.ietf@gmail.com>, "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>, "teas@ietf.org" <teas@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Re[2]: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct used for slice realization
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/8O66E5a9-jgJ2jZivdvR4iYI56Q>
Subject: Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct used for slice realization
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Hi, comments inline. Yours Irrespectively, John > -----Original Message----- > From: Kiran Makhijani <kiran.ietf@gmail.com> > Sent: Wednesday, August 11, 2021 11:00 AM > To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>; Dongjie (Jimmy) > <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>; teas@ietf.org > Subject: Re[2]: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct used for slice > realization > > [External Email. Be cautious of content] > > > Hi John, (and all), > > Two very basic clarification questions: > 1. How do we differentiate between the slice-segments that are resource- > aware vs those that are not? I had assumed that since a slice has an SLO, it will > need network resource allocations in some form. [JD] If you are referring to an IETF Network Slice Service, by definition it has no underlay network resource awareness. > > 2. Is it ok to assume that the customer view of slice is an 'IETF network slice > service' and the 'IETF slice realization' of that service in a provider network is > raises the question of underlay and overlay constructs. Am I right? [JD] We provide overlay services, including but not limited to, IETF Network Slice Services over a common underlay network. > (a) if so, then we are acknowledging the presence of another layer of > abstraction (for realization). It could be underlay/overlay or aggregate/??. [JD] This has been integral to the IETF network slice work from its inception. > Then > the term 'slice aggregate' is better and my preference, it is easier to see that > different slice-services are aggregated into a single construct in a provider > network. [JD] There is a set of IETF Network Slice Services which are mapped to a set of partitioned underlay network topologies (or whatever term on which we decide), as are other overlay network services. > Use of underlay/overlay are confusing. [JD] I'm sorry. This has been IETF and industry standard terminology for years. > (b) for a leaner provisioning, I would also prefer to see it documented that the > aggregate is optional and it should be possible to directly map a slice-service to > physical or real resources in the network. > specifically useful when a single domain is carving out slices for different > purposes. [JD] As I noted to Joel, resource partitions are an optional tool that enables enhanced DiffServ support for a multiplicity of overlay services. I.e., it is not IETF Network Slice Service-specific. > > Thanks > Kiran > > > ------ Original Message ------ > From: "John E Drake" <jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>> > To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com<mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com>>; "Lizhenbin" > <lizhenbin@huawei.com<mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com>>; "teas@ietf.org<mailto:teas@ietf.org>" <teas@ietf.org<mailto:teas@ietf.org>> > Sent: 8/11/2021 5:38:05 AM > Subject: Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct used for slice realization > > >Jimmy, > > > >Snipped, comments inline. > > > >Yours Irrespectively, > > > >John > > > > > >Juniper Business Use Only > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com<mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com>> > >> Sent: Tuesday, August 10, 2021 11:03 PM > >> To: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net<mailto:jdrake@juniper.net>>; Lizhenbin > >><lizhenbin@huawei.com<mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com>>; teas@ietf.org<mailto:teas@ietf.org> > >> Subject: RE: New term for the underlay construct used for slice > >>realization > >> > >> [External Email. Be cautious of content] > >> > >underlay construct for network slice realization bound to > >> > > network slice services? That is, is the underlay construct only > >> for > > use in network slicing, or should it be generalized for more possible > uses? > >> > > >> > [JD] Absolutely yes > >> > >> [Jie] I guess you mean "Yes" to the latter case, which is "it should > >> be generalized for more possible uses", is my understanding correct? > > > >[JD] Yes to the latter > > > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > 2. If the answer to question 1 is YES, should it reflect the following > >> > > characteristics? > >> > > > >> > > a. It is about the underlay > >> > > b. It is about the partitioned resources used to deliver the network > slice > >> > > services > >> > > c. It allows the 1:1, N:1, and 1:N mapping models between the > network > >> > slice > >> > > services and the underlay construct. The 1:1 and N:1 mapping may > >> be > > straightforward. Does it also make sense to divide the > >> elements or > > traffic flows in a single network slice service to > >> carry them in > > different > underlay constructs? > >> > > >> > [JD] Yes to all of the above. Please see: > >> > > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra> > >> f > t-drake-bess-enhanced-vpn-06__;!!NEt6yMaO- > >> gk!TCiJHCZCwFgwpuFoujxVlZ4r9 > >> > F6mLpE4nJ-9zpqkY-kls-ROxL4C2_xNaR2ImI4$ > >> > > > >> > > Lastly, here are some candidates of the "new term": > >> > > > >> > > Option 1: The network slice service is called "overlay slice", > >> then > > the underlay construct is called "underlay slice". > >> > > > >> > > Option 2: The network slice service is called "service slice", > >> then > > the underlay construct is called "resource slice". > >> > > >> > [JD] I don't think we need another term for what we are already > >> > calling an 'IETF Network Slice Service'. Adrian and I are > >> considering > the term 'resource partition' to describe the > >> partitioning of underlay > network resources in support of various > >> overlay services such as IETF Network Slice Services. > >> > This is congruent with the ideas expressed in: > >> > > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra> > >> f > t-ietf-spring-resource-aware-segmen__;!!NEt6yMaO- > >> gk!TCiJHCZCwFgwpuFouj > >> > xVlZ4r9F6mLpE4nJ-9zpqkY-kls-ROxL4C2_xNxEfwaXg$ > >> > ts-03. What this allows one to build is an 'partitioned underlay > >> > network topology'. > >> > >> [Jie] Agree that here we are talking about the term for the underlay > construct. > >> "Resource partition" captures one of its key characteristics, while > >> IMO another thing the term needs to reflect is that the resource > >> partition is needed on a subset of the links and nodes (rather than > >> on a single node or link) in the physical network, which together builds a > logical network topology. > > > >[JD] In my initial email, above, I was proposing 'partitioned underlay network > topology' > > > >> > >> Best regards, > >> Jie > >> > >> > > >> > > > >> > > Your opinion about these candidates are much appreciated. You > >> may > > also propose other new term if it complies with the above two > points. > >> > > >> > [JD] I think you have exceeded your remit. > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > Best Regards, > >> > > Robin > >> > > > >> > > _______________________________________________ > >> > > Teas mailing list > >> > > Teas@ietf.org<mailto:Teas@ietf.org> > >> > > > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/te<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/te> > >> > > as > >> > > __;!!N > >> > > Et6yMaO-gk!Q0ycOf0ELxT6mG1GbnO4LSL-Q99J4uu7jfdUtBECaI- > >> > > O08HqD31TGJciNjuxL2A$ > >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ > >> > Teas mailing list > >> > Teas@ietf.org<mailto:Teas@ietf.org> > >> > > >> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tea<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tea> > >> s > __;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!TCiJHCZCwFgwpuFoujxVlZ4r9F6mLpE4nJ-9zpqkY-kls- > >> ROxL4C2 > >> > _xNDCrPaNQ$ > > > >_______________________________________________ > >Teas mailing list > >Teas@ietf.org<mailto:Teas@ietf.org> > >https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas_<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas_> > >_;!!NEt6yMaO- > gk!SCERgAZ566ZJbmstSAXS9FCSjdfU15Z795qJU4cO3Z4kXx8JLdcPEdSp4VsBkqM$ Juniper Business Use Only
- [Teas] New term for the underlay construct used f… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… John E Drake
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… John E Drake
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… gregory.mirsky
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… John E Drake
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Kiran Makhijani
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… John E Drake
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… gregory.mirsky
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Kiran M
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Gyan Mishra
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Luis M. Contreras
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Tarek Saad
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Kiran M
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Vishnu Pavan Beeram
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Dongjie (Jimmy)
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Joel M. Halpern
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Igor Bryskin
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… peng.shaofu
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… John E Drake
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… John E Drake
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… 龚立艳
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Lizhenbin
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Tarek Saad
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Vishnu Pavan Beeram
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Adrian Farrel
- Re: [Teas] New term for the underlay construct us… Vishnu Pavan Beeram