Re: [Teas] Moving forward with draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices

John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net> Wed, 05 May 2021 13:46 UTC

Return-Path: <jdrake@juniper.net>
X-Original-To: teas@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: teas@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 189143A0B5A for <teas@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 5 May 2021 06:46:32 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=kXzCs877; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net header.b=TR98DN1s
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rrlEwYhOrosO for <teas@ietfa.amsl.com>; Wed, 5 May 2021 06:46:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6DC113A0B60 for <teas@ietf.org>; Wed, 5 May 2021 06:46:26 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pps.filterd (m0108159.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.43) with SMTP id 145DjJQs001470; Wed, 5 May 2021 06:46:25 -0700
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=ycF/he/RyRQFCWVL9exVRmUQkhFYFXcNVGSEfHfrItQ=; b=kXzCs877+R5QCilGpKoxd2KdJvUJ+UzE8yES/35cJuFZU9T4u2jVatjO53R0ocoalb9u A/FfS94ZitgXFOJ5P2KJCmLFehTjFTgLYDS7vo2SXCFyRBZqOOFtFgZVbWSdtLZ9UYxw v90dmWMbY7Na/b+EiwkNkITDQdmSJ6r688Y2lQQbHvy6O84/2VJxIzjZMD0LkFkMhG5T 4nOhBJbtd+UJRWxT1V16eXpivn2/Fp41ZI85cwzmVnkD76Hm2xygeI6ff6z/3YrGGh9J ZT9xpDFRjtqKTvRR1BXC+ouYrxw+X735U3Eq7DcwQzvLVbRuPMJd6K2HrAaLcur2Mtyb NA==
Received: from nam04-mw2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-mw2nam08lp2172.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.73.172]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 38bedq15jb-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 05 May 2021 06:46:25 -0700
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=Z/rjBr7Q9caAxwYGPlXqqbVnKd+dYegT0UpL2hWXUMPDLiJ7YPSSx8OiatAEXwCNc/AS5GIxx0n965yKsD+kQAR+rVaeIbz8XhAT6Slhr63zwL+TEzzxvWmUUaXESE1EzFDvREJCR5+HJft7ZAqFKQyaKstbe3xMaB7zZ6hnlGK9p1HWFkhhesWbtndObLtZ2SfbCKudHiZHLq+qiN9NJzkcWUNBMnVcrKVfdkgFpDXWFcw1wu2Sf5N00s0lXouw9pXuFWmHHruMv+l2OOm8XWav4yV4alOCi2o+3WFY1TfpcAPwvpGvTTJTUWPeKuRXxZ3M9OoEM4wzcyyBWKoPpw==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ycF/he/RyRQFCWVL9exVRmUQkhFYFXcNVGSEfHfrItQ=; b=cj3tDoq4gEg7Snn/vsui9Ito/aptamsQgyyZ/M7iRzK5qcJVjZhMvjvbaL4EnY7hklu4CdSwGAs89yC/LeHGvHt0lE3CtMTE1QhO85fQ8/zQjg7n7c0WUqKop6HLvsTjW+8WkVvvUhlb2nn8IvMtiE85YZF0QtA3hlhcJbyEJYl6QgFSpODjt8uGMz7lHwHlhBt8AAekmJ3l2ietbZ0u5o5Wqd506fHT3Qrbg99zKQQfcKZV7yCsX6QKVlwnUgc44UEPo62x8ZIYl5RBYmeyUA2yAH9CHEZh3yzrZ0FrIdR1RkDlUQGA6iGLvTWCcDajWse2QNdb0g8dZmXNK+juDA==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=juniper.net; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=juniper.net; dkim=pass header.d=juniper.net; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=ycF/he/RyRQFCWVL9exVRmUQkhFYFXcNVGSEfHfrItQ=; b=TR98DN1sx13hgMfsjqsFohyvp6U6DPF4ZjcaZzLZKaJMCAzaECBgUgmI+N9SxEdkzD7LUcHUSm7bzQG51tMjwPz/dZZkOkTAIshaFIB+nuP0SCLaJG0vmbD+KvJmgsACzuXcueC7DJ1LvWlEJee11QVEdf2K5Ts3fZPX23DngXo=
Received: from BY3PR05MB8081.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:366::15) by SJ0PR05MB7343.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:284::5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4108.12; Wed, 5 May 2021 13:46:23 +0000
Received: from BY3PR05MB8081.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9195:d339:76df:f757]) by BY3PR05MB8081.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::9195:d339:76df:f757%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4108.025; Wed, 5 May 2021 13:46:23 +0000
From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, 'Loa Andersson' <loa@pi.nu>, "teas@ietf.org" <teas@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Teas] Moving forward with draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices
Thread-Index: AddAxWjITt1c7iy5R82GjNJUuT9irQAxff2AAAJ4G4AAB+5RQA==
Date: Wed, 5 May 2021 13:46:23 +0000
Message-ID: <BY3PR05MB80817DCBFC0F81C40E908EA4C7599@BY3PR05MB8081.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
References: <037401d740c5$70a9cc30$51fd6490$@olddog.co.uk> <3ea262cf-e4c0-5ec0-9736-aedaf6d5d4d8@pi.nu> <009401d74195$41fd70a0$c5f851e0$@olddog.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <009401d74195$41fd70a0$c5f851e0$@olddog.co.uk>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
dlp-product: dlpe-windows
dlp-version: 11.6.100.41
dlp-reaction: no-action
msip_labels: MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Enabled=true; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SetDate=2021-05-05T13:46:22Z; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Method=Standard; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_Name=0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_SiteId=bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ActionId=5466ffe2-16bd-4d2a-823d-6c130dc11db2; MSIP_Label_0633b888-ae0d-4341-a75f-06e04137d755_ContentBits=2
authentication-results: olddog.co.uk; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;olddog.co.uk; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net;
x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 307a118d-97fc-465e-7f33-08d90fcc2bec
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SJ0PR05MB7343:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <SJ0PR05MB73438FBB3C56BB12CB516306C7599@SJ0PR05MB7343.namprd05.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:5797;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BY3PR05MB8081.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(396003)(376002)(39860400002)(346002)(366004)(136003)(6506007)(186003)(53546011)(8936002)(33656002)(64756008)(66556008)(66446008)(7696005)(66476007)(316002)(26005)(2906002)(83380400001)(110136005)(8676002)(5660300002)(66946007)(71200400001)(122000001)(76116006)(86362001)(478600001)(966005)(38100700002)(52536014)(55016002)(9686003); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: =?us-ascii?Q?wwhknm+AxJn7SSvbEGXcaSSEmtJ6Q/QOPm1IbzkfvzzmQgDG+8374AnghA+s?= =?us-ascii?Q?KiJVTAe9SARAzS6vioikw2myyGU4MIiqGquyH7pYJAdLPOxLP8Oysbgi3QIq?= =?us-ascii?Q?m/FfCIcUzj4CupPBhCxhuaO8SwhFqQrN9iXp2QloQmnAtmGj8Iic3KanLd3L?= =?us-ascii?Q?I78gEQRwEpsXYQtdMmu330DmetgvcuXgugUrUVUDaf2Wir3MyJrNy4w/YWLJ?= =?us-ascii?Q?yRU3c/SAh8oglFy0ZGpEs1Md9Zw2BXh/UGQK7RvMMZvknnheS4K3Dd00PwBT?= =?us-ascii?Q?150xtY9vpaV9To4x39hnU/zS1WbJQsLvnNaU/IMYw13JApd60D5wsqgLsOGA?= =?us-ascii?Q?rv4f57GO5lwGNE2D/GS88Nwg3JdUXa1g4s637ialwru0WXcOsur/ZifFa5Iq?= =?us-ascii?Q?rQXaJOvbiLHWnjPORgNhkmneJuUhljKkGN0F+ZM4HzLespDE1NX+sFEQTFnu?= =?us-ascii?Q?nnaraCQHQciliZ1ghT8386Fqx1dfU9GUA/IvnLWOA2VfSzUEDtIozAjoscy+?= =?us-ascii?Q?E5cOQwG5w6G1/Ce9wEExMRdv9J1xrQFZVt97eeS1H25uYaYxnzLketKIq2rw?= =?us-ascii?Q?ssogA/L5YKYi53wWDrVx9vmKv27Hob8dowex2PVgs3KFB3JQgsFuci0ndRjw?= =?us-ascii?Q?eK+YCOtqmk/ltxGst+Lq2wRHUuWpHSB6UTkp51TAFPiWLXB3pd1nvqp7Q5kS?= =?us-ascii?Q?cGA/HB7sPmlPQRIp7S+oGx4oqInSkBaTZjhcQokzBasBEWMtv9tY8BO2U4up?= =?us-ascii?Q?fIgqAAIVhQRJxQASX70uFAXqENjPaR7+vZ4wLrzUHHov3/n1soc9Cls5Bu1i?= =?us-ascii?Q?qGnyuYHoDz5jejBiZW6lFVRUFxFbBWi+tJQkgFI+vCnc0ONidlUG+KL9P0D+?= =?us-ascii?Q?AUR9N7GfnwlteBEXCtoZ9M2SmTHii79CKi26nNFM1U5sJmht8c1wn53k3H2J?= =?us-ascii?Q?9XjxDI68TO9ZKptLoP8Ggm1tfSALrz8LDcJjEFN42h1nYwsunpu84jNdotl2?= =?us-ascii?Q?aHWlHbbQEDyQHs1Vwca1eLMg5HsgqJ+F2cDrLyXdHFAn21Lz9bublo46PHg0?= =?us-ascii?Q?973WVOGURdu+Vf5WZvycQZvQlAuqyBSSkE8c3r72kj2wlUO8FP6B1nFARZNf?= =?us-ascii?Q?5MyaVeIkfbLcfNHRrQsUHdDIlTCZmVgOLPKg00kZUibkDYmjtDWHx4etjo/h?= =?us-ascii?Q?1Y654ZxzE4B1AMtOTMh9jUXtbuUDQSDwplsHpXpZh2bmltbogOIAJMGhLZQY?= =?us-ascii?Q?wR+VPRugoO/teLauHaPB9+zvviQF45o4dQB0fAz1gtiG3lzQAbwrrPJDGpPq?= =?us-ascii?Q?5rIHthHisSbkxjG3m7q4V6ha?=
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR05MB8081.namprd05.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 307a118d-97fc-465e-7f33-08d90fcc2bec
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 May 2021 13:46:23.3409 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 0IMgIaDI/WzWt07IaGD+cVg+/I4s5e0IC8pnCG4Pb72XlwkaUjDC3J8Wjk0COifS7LtES/p9c0w+9+8HE0Bm6Q==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SJ0PR05MB7343
X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: qja3ynQXqzkwzgCcqqj6gl3JmCkzWC6H
X-Proofpoint-GUID: qja3ynQXqzkwzgCcqqj6gl3JmCkzWC6H
X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.761 definitions=2021-05-05_07:2021-05-05, 2021-05-05 signatures=0
X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 spamscore=0 bulkscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 clxscore=1015 malwarescore=0 mlxscore=0 adultscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.12.0-2104060000 definitions=main-2105050099
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/CjXjVqES85Ia8w3UUqpwmRJDN6c>
Subject: Re: [Teas] Moving forward with draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices
X-BeenThere: teas@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Traffic Engineering Architecture and Signaling working group discussion list <teas.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/teas>, <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/teas/>
List-Post: <mailto:teas@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas>, <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 May 2021 13:46:32 -0000

Customer is a standard IETF term

Yours Irrespectively,

John


Juniper Business Use Only

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Teas <teas-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Adrian Farrel
> Sent: Wednesday, May 5, 2021 5:59 AM
> To: 'Loa Andersson' <loa@pi.nu>nu>; teas@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Teas] Moving forward with draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices
> 
> [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> 
> 
> Hi Loa,
> 
> > On customer vs. consumer Adrian says:
> >
> >>   c. "Consumer" vs "customer". I have made this consistent (we only need to
> >>        use one term). I selected "Customer" because that seemed best, but I
> >>        know some people prefer "consumer". Please discuss if you are not
> >>        happy.
> >
> > If the choice is between customer vs. consumer, I prefer customer.
> 
> OK. So I made an improvement, but...
> 
> > I don't know if it is too late to bring this up.
> 
> It's never too late to bring things up.
> 
> > But I really don't like either, normal language has a strong
> > indication that that that a customer is a person (a person that walks
> > inte to your
> > shop) and consumer is also a person /that eats what I bought at your shop).
> 
> I think you forget about wholesale. What do you call the school that buys food
> at the shop to provide to the children? Do you call the school the customer, or
> do you refer to the cook who buys the food as the customer? The contract is
> with the school, negotiated by the cook, signed by the bursar.
> 
> > IETF specifies "systems", including what goes into SW and HW, but we
> > don't specify normative rules for human behavior.
> >
> > I don't know if we can talk about Customer System?
> 
> I'm afraid of this getting heavy for the reader. There are 73 instances of
> "customer" in the document, and "customer system" may become tiresome to
> read.
> 
> Anyone else got anything to say on the topic?
> 
> Cheers,
> Adrian
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Teas mailing list
> Teas@ietf.org
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas__;!!N
> Et6yMaO-
> gk!SK7Qcl0ydZ1sAg7KdxLhZRtYc8GrgEj15xn3VPtMhJmMrBf_WoYQQNiYEgurmG
> E$