Re: [Teas] CE-based Network Slice RE: network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00

["Ogaki, Kenichi" <[e-mail]>]

Hi All,

My mailer couldn't catch up the latest discussion...

As for the term for the boundary between CE and PE, if we have to define this, we prefer the reuse of an existing term, AP, consistent with the existing definition as possible. As the framework document says, ACTN is one of base frameworks in case of TE enabled underlying network.

>If endpoints may vary depending on underlay implementation (e.g., whether CE is managed or not), a logical identifier independent of underlay would be needed to simplify network slice model.

We can understand your concern, but are also concerned about the complexity to map the logical identifier/simplify network slice model to an underlying technology, and difficulty to implement in practical. In my understanding, the provider managed CE is a kind of option in L3VPN technology. From NBI perspective, for example, L3SM just defines this as an option of a basic/customer-managed CE - PE model.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: Teas <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Friday, March 5, 2021 8:45 AM
To: Joel M. Halpern <[e-mail]>; Shunsuke Homma <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Teas] CE-based Network Slice RE: network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00

Hi All,

In my opinion, even where an IETF network slice is composed of multiple layer/segment slices by multiple providers, the SLA/SLO must be assured between PE and PE by the end-to-end slice service provider if this includes multiple CE(PE)-PE connections(access circuits) inside. 

As for access circuit itself, it depends on who prepares the access circuit. When we say IX service, the consumer prepares and assures this in our service. Say VPN service, the provider prepares and assures. This means the access circuit belongs to CE for the former case and belongs to PE for the latter case.
#I know IX is an inappropriate example for slice.

> As you described, there may be cases where CE makes marking on traffic 
> and PE allocate it to appropriate slice based on the mark, but I think 
> the arrangement between CE and PE will be done by 
> controller/orchestrator higher than IETF Network Slice Controller. In 
> other words, a necessary policy is set to PE from higher 
> controller/orchestrator, and IETF network slice can work independently 
> of whether the CE is slice-aware or not.

We are now asking ACTN to support this with actn-vn-yang and te-service-mapping for TE enabled underlying network.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: Teas <[e-mail]> On Behalf Of Joel M. Halpern
Sent: Thursday, March 4, 2021 9:42 AM
To: Shunsuke Homma <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]
Cc: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: [Teas] CE-based Network Slice RE: network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00

I can't speak for Med, but in my opinion, the right scope for the IETF Network Slice is PE to PE.  Information about the access circuit will need to be provided, but it is not, as I understand it,under the control of the IETF Network Slice Controller.

Yours,
Joel

On 3/3/2021 7:25 PM, Shunsuke Homma wrote:
> Hi Med,
> 
> I think it's an important discussion. I'd like to clarify the range 
> which should be managed as an IETF network slice. In my understanding, 
> CE will be a slice consumer's end-host or an endpoint of an opposite 
> network slice, and it will be generally out of control of IETF network 
> slice. As you described, there may be cases where CE makes marking on 
> traffic and PE allocate it to appropriate slice based on the mark, but 
> I think the arrangement between CE and PE will be done by 
> controller/orchestrator higher than IETF Network Slice Controller. In 
> other words, a necessary policy is set to PE from higher 
> controller/orchestrator, and IETF network slice can work independently 
> of whether the CE is slice-aware or not.
> 
> So my question is which is appropriate as the range of IETF network slice.
> 
> 1. it is always between CE and CE,
> 2. it is always between PE and PE,
> 3. it is basically from PE to PE, and sometimes between CE and CE 
> (e.g., in case that CE is slice-aware,)
> 
> # From a network operator or slice provider aspect, I'd like to know 
> whether SLA/SLO between CE and PE must  be assured.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Shunsuke
> 
> 2021年3月3日(水) 22:57 <[e-mail]
> <mailto:[e-mail]>>:
> 
>     Re-,____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Thanks Adrian for raising this point.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     My take is that we can’t discard it by design. Take the example of
>     stitched slices where packets are marked by the CE + that marking is
>     trusted by the PE to graft them to the appropriate network slice.
>     Likewise, a hierarchical design where an aggregate slice trusts the
>     marking of the upper slice to identify how to map between the
>     levels. Such trust may be justified under specific deployment
>     contexts. ____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Cheers,____
> 
>     Med____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     *De :* Teas [mailto:[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>] *De la part de* Adrian Farrel
>     *Envoyé :* jeudi 25 février 2021 11:52
>     *À :* 'Young Lee' <[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>>; 'Luis M. Contreras'
>     <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>     *Cc :* 'Joel M. Halpern' <[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>;
>     'Eric Gray' <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>; 'John
>     E Drake' <jdrake=[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>>; 'Rokui, Reza (Nokia -
>     CA/Ottawa)' <[e-mail] <mailto:[e-mail]>>;
>     BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN <[e-mail]
>     <mailto:[e-mail]>>
>     *Objet :* Re: [Teas] network Slice Endpoint in
>     draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     [...] ____
> 
>     ...but we have to ask ourselves carefully whether we **really** want
>     the CE-based approach in our network slicing:____
> 
>     __-__What are the considerations for how much knowledge of the
>     underlay network has to be shared to the CE?____
> 
>     __-__What are the considerations for how an underlay distinguishes
>     CE-originated slicing traffic?____
> 
>     These are pretty much the same questions that CE-based VPNs have to
>     answer. Of course, the concept of a “provider-managed CE” muddies
>     these waters somewhat.____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     Conversely, the port-based PE-based VPN has none of these problems,
>     but does have to agree on the “Access Connection” encoding, and that
>     is either payload-sensitive (like in PWE3) or technology-aware (like
>     in L3VPN).____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     [...] ____
> 
>     __ __
> 
>     
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