Re: [Teas] network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00

Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com> Tue, 23 February 2021 15:15 UTC

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From: Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, John E Drake <jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>, "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>, "teas@ietf.org" <teas@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Teas] network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00
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Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 15:15:24 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Teas] network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00
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Hi all,

Yes, it seems the best way to get out of this vicious circle. 
Strong support from my side as well.

BR
Daniele  

-----Original Message-----
From: Teas <teas-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Sent: den 23 februari 2021 15:56
To: John E Drake <jdrake=40juniper.net@dmarc.ietf.org>rg>; Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>om>; teas@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [Teas] network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-definition-00

Hi John, all, 

I strongly support this proposal. 

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de John E Drake 
> Envoyé : mardi 23 février 2021 15:53 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN 
> <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>om>; Joel M.
> Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>om>; teas@ietf.org Objet : Re: [Teas] 
> network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-
> network-slice-definition-00
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Eric and I have reviewed the Definitions draft, the email thread with 
> the subject line: Network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf- 
> network-slice-definition-00, and the RFCs referenced in emails on that 
> thread - 3985, 4110, 4026, 4664, and 8309, and we would like to 
> propose that in the Definitions draft we replace 'network slice 
> endpoint' with 'CE' and 'network slice realization endpoint' with 
> 'PE', that we reference  RFCs  3985, 4110, 4026, 4664, and 8309, and 
> that we  replace the current figure in Endpoint section with several 
> figures, which show connectivity constructs and which are consistent 
> with these RFCs.  We would also like to replace 'consumer' with 
> 'customer', add 'attachment circuit', and add a new term, viz, 'IETF 
> Network Slice Service', whose definition is a set of CEs, a set of 
> connectivity constructs (MP2MP, P2MP, P2P, etc.) between subsets of 
> these CEs and an SLO for each CE sending to each connectivity 
> construct.
> 
> As an aside, the Endpoint section of the Definitions draft uses the 
> bulk of its prose enumerating what its endpoints are not.  Per Yakov, 
> since there are a potentially infinite number of things which its 
> endpoints are not, this is futile and we would like to remove that 
> prose.
> 
> Yours Irrespectively,
> 
> Eric and John
> 
> 
> Juniper Business Use Only
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Teas <teas-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of 
> > mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
> > Sent: Tuesday, February 16, 2021 11:59 AM
> > To: Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com>om>; teas@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Teas] network Slice Endpoint in
> > draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slice-
> > definition-00
> >
> > [External Email. Be cautious of content]
> >
> >
> > Re-,
> >
> > Indeed. That's need to be fixed.
> >
> > As we are on the terminology, I do also suggest that the draft is 
> > updated to adhere to RFC8309. Given the recursiveness discussed in
> the
> > draft, having geo- coordinates interfaces is also confusing.
> Inspiring
> > from RFC8309 would make more sense.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Med
> >
> > > -----Message d'origine-----
> > > De : Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] Envoyé : mardi
> 16
> > > février 2021 17:44 À : BOUCADAIR Mohamed TGI/OLN 
> > > <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>om>; teas@ietf.org Objet : Re: [Teas] 
> > > network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-
> > > network-slice-definition-00
> > >
> > > I would be happy to use CE and PE.  I would also be happy to use 
> > > completely different words.  The current diagram and terminology 
> > > makes this very confusing, and leads to problems.
> > >
> > > Yours,
> > > Joel
> > >
> > > On 2/16/2021 11:39 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
> > > > Re-,
> > > >
> > > > Please see inline.
> > > >
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Med
> > > >
> > > >> -----Message d'origine-----
> > > >> De : Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Joel M.
> > > >> Halpern
> > > >> Envoyé : mardi 16 février 2021 17:12 À : teas@ietf.org Objet :
> Re:
> > > >> [Teas] network Slice Endpoint in draft-ietf-teas-ietf-
> > > >> network-slice-definition-00
> > > >>
> > > >> The document is not about the request from the external
> customer
> > > (the
> > > >> request for the end-to-end network slice). It is about the 
> > > >> request from other orchestration systems to the IETF Network 
> > > >> Slice
> > > management
> > > >> systems.
> > > >
> > > > [Med] ... which is still behaving as the customer role.
> > > >
> > > >   Yes, those systems need to know where they intent to
> > > >> utilize the IETF network slice.  But the IETF network slice
> does
> > > not
> > > >> need to know about that.
> > > >
> > > > [Med] This is what I fail to see. The orchestrator has an
> internal
> > > vision that is not available to the entity asking for a slice.
> These
> > > nodes are not even known to the "other orchestration systems"
> when
> > > asking for a slice.
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> In particular, when we get to talking about configuring the
> IETF
> > > >> Network Slice properties, the edge (ingress) that the IETF 
> > > >> Network Slice controller controls (and corresponding egress)
> is
> > > >> what needs
> > > to
> > > >> be provisioned.
> > > >
> > > > [Med] Agree, but that is a distinct phase.
> > > >
> > > > BTW, ingress/egress are as a function of the traffic direction.
> A
> > > node (PE) may behave as both ingress and egress for the same
> slice.
> > > >
> > > >> It is possible that on the egress side there needs to be
> > > information
> > > >> about how to deliver the traffic externally.
> > > >
> > > > [Med] Agree. That node does not need to be visible (known in
> > > advance) to the entity that will consume the corresponding slice.
> > > >
> > > >    But that would not be
> > > >> in terms of end-points since from the perspective of the IETF
> > > Network
> > > >> Slice, on the egress that is not an endpoint of anything.
> > > >
> > > > [Med] I agree that "endpoint" is confusing. "Customer
> Node/Edge"
> > > > vs
> > > "Provider Edge" are my favorite here.
> > > >
> > > >>
> > > >> Yours,
> > > >> Joel
> > > >>
> > > >> On 2/16/2021 11:05 AM, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com wrote:
> > > >>> Hi Joel,
> > > >>>
> > > >>> I disagree with this note. I do think that both flavors of
> > > >> "endpoint" should be included in the draft.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> >From the customer standpoint, a slice request cannot be
> > > >> characterized by elements not visible to the customer. The
> scope
> > > of a
> > > >> requested slice can only be characterized between nodes that
> are
> > > >> known to the requestor. This is usually called, CE.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The mapping between a CE and a network device (typically, a
> PE)
> > > is
> > > >> a process that is internal to the slice provider.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> The CE-PE link cannot be systematically excluded as some 
> > > >>> specific
> > > >> behaviors may need to be enforced in the CE-PE link. Think
> about
> > > >> a slice that is implemented by means of a PE-based VPN and
> which
> > > >> requires some specific routing + QoS policies at the CE-PE
> link.
> > > >>>
> > > >>> Cheers,
> > > >>> Med
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
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