[Teas] Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC9543 (7981)

mohamed.boucadair@orange.com Tue, 11 June 2024 13:08 UTC

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To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, "teas@ietf.org" <teas@ietf.org>, 'James Guichard' <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>
Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC9543 (7981)
Thread-Index: AQFSiklETqOi7MmqZ1dNCfESYdOdibLSrUsQgAA4KOA=
Date: Tue, 11 Jun 2024 13:07:18 +0000
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References: <20240611060929.3E04C204E22@rfcpa.rfc-editor.org> <028401dabbef$2189ae60$649d0b20$@olddog.co.uk>
In-Reply-To: <028401dabbef$2189ae60$649d0b20$@olddog.co.uk>
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Subject: [Teas] Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC9543 (7981)
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Hi Adrian,

(ps: it seems that a draft of this message made it to the list. Apologies for the inconvenience)

The purpose of the erratum is to clarify the confusion and record the outcome. So, thank you for the follow-up and for offering a NEW text.

I understand that "and/or" reflect your intent as an editor. Noted.

With that in mind I went back and re-read your comments at https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/aHNrTPWPH8G8wuc2MbVaNPimPSw/, especially " [AF] But I do see it as "applying certain tools and techniques within the network."" to understand how in your mind it was evident that setting paths between PEs can be seen as a network slice, while it isn't for me despite we are referring to the same definition. The "and/or" change does not help me here :-(

Concretely:
* we are not talking about the realization of random service, but a network slice service.
* If network slice can be achieved solely by partitioning, then why we have the concept of NRP at the first place?
* partitioning can be achieved by "applying certain tools and techniques within the network". So, why it is called out explicitly here? This is redundant.

I think that I would be OK with the following:

==
NEW:
IETF Network Slice: The realization of the IETF Network Slice Service in the
  provider's network achieved by applying certain tools and techniques within the network. See Sections 4.1 and 7.
==

I don't know if such change can be done with an erratum though.

Thank you. 

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
> Envoyé : mardi 11 juin 2024 13:04
> À : teas@ietf.org; 'James Guichard'
> <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>
> Cc : BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>;
> je_drake@yahoo.com; rrokui@ciena.com;
> shunsuke.homma.ietf@gmail.com; kiran.ietf@gmail.com;
> luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com;
> jefftant.ietf@gmail.com
> Objet : RE: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC9543 (7981)
> 
> 
> I agree with this report in as much as there has been confusion
> expressed on the TEAS list about the interpretation of the quoted
> sentence.
> However, I disagree that the proposed remedy makes the text any
> clearer.
> 
> The problem with the original text appears to be that the word
> "and" is taken to be proscriptive such that both "partitioning
> network resources" and "applying certain tools and techniques"
> must be simultaneously used to realise a network slice.
> 
> This is a challenge with standard English, but it is normal usage
> to mean "you can pick from a set of things that includes A and
> B."
> 
> The proposed replacement text doesn't make this any easier: the
> addition of "both" only seems to strengthen the wrong meaning.
> 
> The solutions in English are somewhat longwinded, so it may be
> worth using the ugly "and/or" construction.
> 
> How about...
> 
>    IETF Network Slice:  The realization of the service in the
> provider's
>    network achieved by partitioning network resources and/or by
>    applying certain tools and techniques within the network (see
>    Sections 4.1 and 7).
> 
> I believe this captures the document editor's intent while
> writing the original text. I cannot speak to what the WG thought
> the text meant.
> 
> By way of clarification, I would offer that:
> - There is a partition of the network resources that is "all the
>   network resources." This is equivalent to not partitioning the
>   resources.
> - There is a technique which is to "do nothing special." This is
>   the equivalent of applying no technique.
> Thus, it is within the original text that a slice can be achieved
> only by partitioning resources, or only by applying
> tools/techniques.
> And, indeed, the whole network is a slice of the network.
> 
> Cheers,
> Adrian
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
> Sent: 11 June 2024 07:09
> To: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
> Cc: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk;
> je_drake@yahoo.com; rrokui@ciena.com;
> shunsuke.homma.ietf@gmail.com; kiran.ietf@gmail.com;
> luismiguel.contrerasmurillo@telefonica.com;
> jefftant.ietf@gmail.com; teas@ietf.org
> Subject: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC9543 (7981)
> 
> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC9543, "A
> Framework for Network Slices in Networks Built from IETF
> Technologies".
> 
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> Fwww.rfc-
> editor.org%2Ferrata%2Feid7981&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40
> orange.com%7Ccf50c03b9de24932a27908dc8a06550c%7C90c7a20af34b40bfb
> c48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%7C0%7C638537006988238239%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZs
> b3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M
> n0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&sdata=vn97zicfckM1rJu2DQn6eVJbhFT2%2FXbaZ6QONm
> 0i6Qo%3D&reserved=0
> 
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Editorial
> Reported by: Mohamed BOUCADAIR <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> 
> Section: 4
> 
> Original Text
> -------------
> IETF Network Slice:  The realization of the service in the
> provider's
>    network achieved by partitioning network resources and by
> applying
>    certain tools and techniques within the network (see Sections
> 4.1
>    and 7).
> 
> 
> 
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> IETF Network Slice:  The realization of the service in the
> provider's
>    network achieved both by partitioning network resources and by
>    applying certain tools and techniques within the network
>    (see Sections 4.1 and 7).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Notes
> -----
> There is a confusion in the TEAS WG whether the "and" is to be
> interpreted as "both ..and" or "or".
> 
> See
> https://eur03.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2
> Fmailarchive.ietf.org%2Farch%2Fmsg%2Fteas%2FxejJJtuNtCeCZniUEhQka
> db1i3k%2F&data=05%7C02%7Cmohamed.boucadair%40orange.com%7Ccf50c03
> b9de24932a27908dc8a06550c%7C90c7a20af34b40bfbc48b9253b6f5d20%7C0%
> 7C0%7C638537006988250618%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw
> MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C0%7C%7C%7C&s
> data=uDNVO4CqkAAwcLeZFtWZDCjWCFuaftROTvAVndNOsGI%3D&reserved=0
> for more context.
> 
> The NEW text makes the intent explicit.
> 
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". (If it is spam,
> it will be removed shortly by the RFC Production Center.) Please
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party will
> log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
> 
> --------------------------------------
> RFC9543 (draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices-25)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : A Framework for Network Slices in Networks
> Built from IETF Technologies
> Publication Date    : March 2024
> Author(s)           : A. Farrel, Ed., J. Drake, Ed., R. Rokui, S.
> Homma, K. Makhijani, L. Contreras, J. Tantsura
> Category            : INFORMATIONAL
> Source              : Traffic Engineering Architecture and
> Signaling
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG

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