[Teas] Re: [tsvwg] Re: 5QI to DiffServ DSCP Mapping for Slicing (was TR: IETF 120 - TEAS WG - Session Logistics

["Black, David" <[e-mail]>]

Pavan and teas chairs,

Thanks for the helpful comments.  The referenced tsvwg draft, draft-henry-tsvwg-diffserv-to-qci, expired over four years ago (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-henry-tsvwg-diffserv-to-qci/) so there's not much of a relationship with it to discuss ;-).

As noted below, given past interactions with 3GPP, if draft-cbs-teas-5qi-to-dscp-mapping is considered for WG adoption, then I'd suggest sending the relevant liaison to 3GPP earlier in that adoption process rather than later.

Thanks, --David

From: Vishnu Pavan Beeram <[e-mail]>
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2024 12:54 PM
To: Black, David <[e-mail]>
Cc: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <[e-mail]>; Gorry Fairhurst <[e-mail]>; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; [e-mail]; Ivan Bykov <[e-mail]>; Krzysztof Szarkowicz <[e-mail]>; Black, David <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [Teas] Re: [tsvwg] Re: 5QI to DiffServ DSCP Mapping for Slicing (was TR: IETF 120 - TEAS WG - Session Logistics


[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
Agree that this draft needs to also be introduced and discussed in TSVWG. As noted earlier, the 00 version of the draft was presented in the IETF 119 TEAS session. Please refer to the corresponding meeting notes [1] for the brief discussion that ensued (and the questions posed by the chairs). We (TEAS WG chairs) expect the questions related to the target home for this draft and the relationship with the referenced tsvwg draft to be discussed in this Thursday's TEAS WG session.

With respect to interaction with 3GPP, we (TEAS WG) have been sending regular liaisons to 3GPP on WG adopted network slicing related work. If this draft were to eventually get adopted in TEAS (note that it is still early days for the draft -- we haven't yet determined the right home for this), the same practice would be followed and feedback would be sought from 3GPP.

Regards,
- Pavan, Lou and Oscar

[1] https://notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-119-teas?view#09-1420--10-min--Title-5QI-to-DiffServ-DSCP-Mapping-Example-for-Enforcement-of-5G-End-to-End-Network-Slice-QoS [notes.ietf.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/notes.ietf.org/notes-ietf-119-teas?view*09-1420--10-min--Title-5QI-to-DiffServ-DSCP-Mapping-Example-for-Enforcement-of-5G-End-to-End-Network-Slice-QoS__;Iw!!LpKI!jacAHeAL7fGY6qTLzfciRKbRZcTfIgGfHFWW_5ZEYz6PyBXNbYFfO97Gon59Z5ctemzoRDR_ZET-ippKWcE9dQ$>

On Tue, Jul 23, 2024 at 2:46 AM Black, David <David.Black=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>> wrote:
Hi Luis and everyone,

The explanation of the differences in approach is helpful, and I apologize for the intrusion of procedural concerns into technical discussion.  With the passage of time (4-5 years), 3GPP's views may have changed, plus the scope of this draft is considerably less aggressive than the prior scope of draft-henry was ... but ... there's still a potential for problems:

> Please, note that the intention of the draft is NOT to do any kind of modification or proposal for changing anything about QCI/5QI,
> which is a subject of standardization of 3GPP in TS-23.501.
Unfortunately, draft-henry had the same intention at the time (4-5 years ago).

> Furthermore, we are NOT intending to standardize any particular association, grouping or mapping.
> We are just proposing a way (i.e., procedure) of considering 5QIs when requiring DSCP marking in the network.
That "procedure" would be a standard for use of 5QIs, which would likely have fallen within the scope of 3GPP's prior strenuous objections.

On a more positive note, there was some process-oriented discussion of this draft in an IETF-3GPP coordination meeting earlier today.  IMHO, that discussion suggests that if there's WG interest in adopting this draft, then prior to actual adoption, it would be good to ascertain whether 3GPP's views in this area have changed via a liaison statement from the WG to 3GPP (and a response).  If 3GPP's views have changed to accommodate IETF work in this area, then that liaison process should not pose any problems.

I will plan to attend the discussion of this draft in the TEAS meeting later this week.

Thanks, --David

From: LUIS MIGUEL CONTRERAS MURILLO <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2024 9:12 PM
To: Gorry Fairhurst <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Black, David <David.Black=[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
Cc: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Black, David <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Ivan Bykov <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>; Krzysztof Szarkowicz <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Subject: RE: [tsvwg] Re: 5QI to DiffServ DSCP Mapping for Slicing (was TR: [Teas] IETF 120 - TEAS WG - Session Logistics


[EXTERNAL EMAIL]
Hi Gorry, David, Med, all,

During IETF 119 there was a question from Lou (as TEAS chair) on the chat of TEAS WG meeting about to explain the differences between draft-cbs-teas-5qi-to-dscp-mapping and draft-henry-tsvwg-diffserv-to-qci, which is referenced in the former draft, and that was presented to TSVWG.

There are a number of similarities but also differences. Both drafts try to relate the quality indicators in the Radio Access Network (RAN) part, as defined by 3GPP, with DSCP values interpretable by the network (transport network in 3GPP terminology). The departing point from draft-henry-tsvwg-diffserv-to-qci was to define such relationship based on the type of communication service being delivered, so following an application-centric approach.

In draft-cbs-teas-5qi-to-dscp-mapping we follow a different strategy. Here we refer to the characteristics / properties associated to such quality indicators (i.e., 5QI / QCI) in terms of expected latency, packet-loss as well as the nature of the flows (i.e., guaranteed bit rate vs non-guaranteed bit rate). After such characterization there is a proposal of grouping indicators according to similar expected behavior, with the aim of providing afterwards a common DSCP marking to such groups. The reason for it is that the number of queues in the network elements is limited, so similar services / applications can be allocated to the same queue in terms of QoS expectation. So we can call this approach as behavior-centric.

Apart from this different approach, draft-cbs-teas-5qi-to-dscp-mapping covers both 4G and 5G quality indicators (i.e., QCI and 5QI), and also extends the initial approach to the consideration of fronthaul traffic as proposed by radio functional splits as proposed in O-RAN.

The motivation of bringing this work initially to TEAS is because this association of characteristics / properties derived from the indicators (including the idea of grouping) is closely related to the concept of network slicing, in our understanding.

Please, note that the intention of the draft is NOT to do any kind of modification or proposal for changing anything about QCI/5QI, which is a subject of standardization of 3GPP in TS-23.501. Furthermore, we are NOT intending to standardize any particular association, grouping or mapping. We are just proposing a way (i.e., procedure) of considering 5QIs when requiring DSCP marking in the network.

Hope this clarifies better the purpose behind the draft. For sure, as very next steps, we can consider to present the draft at TSVWG as soon as it is possible (IETF 121?) for receiving the proper feedback from the working group.

Thanks,

Best regards

Luis, Krzysztof and Ivan


De: Gorry Fairhurst <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Enviado el: viernes, 19 de julio de 2024 16:53
Para: Black, David <David.Black=[e-mail]<mailto:David.Black=[e-mail]>>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>
CC: [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; [e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>; Black, David <[e-mail]<mailto:[e-mail]>>
Asunto: Re: [tsvwg] Re: 5QI to DiffServ DSCP Mapping for Slicing (was TR: [Teas] IETF 120 - TEAS WG - Session Logistics

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On 19/07/2024 15:05, Black, David wrote:
Hi Med,
[+teas list]

Thanks for the pointer – IMHO, the specific DSCP mappings also ought to be discussed in tsvwg.  Beyond the mappings, the draft contains a lot of 5G and MPLS material for which teas is likely to be a better forum.

The draft's reference to draft-henry-tsvwg-diffserv-to-qci brings up some important context.  Back when draft-henry-tsvwg-diffserv-to-qci was considered in tsvwg, 3GPP was strongly opposed to any IETF standardization (even via an Informational RFC) of QCI/5CI – Diffserv (including DSCP) mappings, especially for public (carrier) networks.  Has that 3GPP position changed since then?

Thanks, --David (a former tsvwg chair)

+1 on what David said.... Let's try to make sure that anything DSCP-related is presented to tsvwg if this draft proceeds, and reviewed there.

I's suggest also that the MPLS-related topics belongs in a WG that has that scope.

Best wishes,

Gorry (as TSVWG Co-Chair)

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