Re: [Teas] "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"

"Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)" <michael.scharf@nokia.com> Thu, 20 July 2017 07:03 UTC

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From: "Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)" <michael.scharf@nokia.com>
To: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>, "teas@ietf.org" <teas@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Teas] "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"
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Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2017 07:03:40 +0000
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/ZdZVs4zeCrxIeQFs8ZuKsH4QhQ4>
Subject: Re: [Teas] "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"
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I have done a litmus test by entering ...

  Software Defined Transport Network (SDTN) Controller

in some Web search engine. I have repeated the same experiment for ...

  Physical Network Controller

The experiment outcome looks relatively clear to me, but of course I may be opinionated.

Michael


PS: I will certainly not insist in the specific term "transport network".

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.nu]
> Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 7:03 AM
> To: teas@ietf.org; Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)
> <michael.scharf@nokia.com>
> Subject: Re: [Teas] "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"
> 
> Michael,
> 
> Are you saying that making this Software Defined Transport Network
> (SDTN) Controller would be acceptable?
> 
> /Loa
> 
> On 2017-07-19 11:02, Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart) wrote:
> > As a chair in TSV, I can confirm that “transport” is used for L4 “stuff”.
> >
> >
> >
> > As far as I can tell, the term “transport network” is not used for L4
> > “stuff”.
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Jeff Tantsura [mailto:jefftant.ietf@gmail.com]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:58 AM
> > *To:* Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>; Scharf,
> > Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart) <michael.scharf@nokia.com>; TEAS WG
> > <teas@ietf.org>
> > *Subject:* Re: [Teas] "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"
> >
> >
> >
> > dealing with this on daily bases, outside of our, rather small world,
> > transport is commonly understood as L4 “stuff”
> >
> >
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Jeff
> >
> >
> >
> > *From: *Teas <teas-bounces@ietf.org <mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org>>
> on
> > behalf of Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
> > <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>
> > *Date: *Wednesday, July 19, 2017 at 10:49
> > *To: *"Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)"
> > <michael.scharf@nokia.com <mailto:michael.scharf@nokia.com>>, TEAS
> WG
> > <teas@ietf.org <mailto:teas@ietf.org>>
> > *Subject: *Re: [Teas] "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"
> >
> >
> >
> > And on that i totally agree with you.
> >
> >
> >
> > …and yes, on the netslices mailing list I was reprimanded by the
> > transport ADs for using the term transport for non layer 4 stuff 😊
> >
> >
> >
> > BR
> > Daniele
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Scharf,
> > Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)
> > *Sent:* mercoledì 19 luglio 2017 10:41
> > *To:* Daniele Ceccarelli <daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com
> > <mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com>>; TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org
> > <mailto:teas@ietf.org>>
> > *Subject:* Re: [Teas] "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, the IETF has an area called “TSV” and so in the IETF “transport”
> > has yet another meaning ;-)
> >
> >
> >
> > Given that, such terminology would have to be defined in IETF
> > documents anyway. A definition of these terms could clarify the
> > meaning for MPLS-TE and SR-TE.
> >
> >
> >
> > Anyway, my key point is that I think the terminology used by
> > draft-bryskin-te-topo-and-tunnel-modeling-00 is easy to understand by
> > people outside the IETF.
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Daniele Ceccarelli [mailto:daniele.ceccarelli@ericsson.com]
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, July 19, 2017 10:28 AM
> > *To:* Scharf, Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart) <michael.scharf@nokia.com
> > <mailto:michael.scharf@nokia.com>>; TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org
> > <mailto:teas@ietf.org>>
> > *Subject:* RE: "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"
> >
> >
> >
> > +1 , BUT…
> >
> >
> >
> > We need to be careful with the word “transport”. In some contexts it
> > refers to pure transport technologies (e.g. OTN, WDM) and does not
> > include other upper layer TE technologies (e.g. MPLS-TE and SR-TE), in
> > other contexts it includes also the latter.
> > I’m more than happy to use the term transport SDN controller provided
> > we’re all on the same page (which should be the second).
> >
> >
> >
> > BR
> > Daniele
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > *From:* Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Scharf,
> > Michael (Nokia - DE/Stuttgart)
> > *Sent:* mercoledì 19 luglio 2017 10:01
> > *To:* TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org <mailto:teas@ietf.org>>
> > *Subject:* [Teas] "Hierarchical T-SDN Controller"
> >
> >
> >
> > In the (useful) I-D draft-bryskin-te-topo-and-tunnel-modeling-00,
> > Section 1.9. “Multi-Domain Transport Service Coordination” uses the
> > following wording:
> >
> >
> >
> >    A client of multiple TE network domains may need to
> >
> >    orchestrate/coordinate its transport service setup/manipulation
> >
> >    across some or all the domains. One example of such a client is a
> >
> >    Hierarchical T-SDN Controller, HC, managing a connected
> > multi-domain
> >
> >    transport network where each of the domains is controlled by a
> >
> >    separate Domain T-SDN Controller, DC.
> >
> >
> >
> > Outside the IETF, I have the impression that this terminology is quite
> > common when discussing TEAS YANG models. I wonder whether we could
> use
> > this terminology more frequently inside in TEAS.
> >
> >
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > _______________________________________________ Teas mailing
> list
> > Teas@ietf.org <mailto:Teas@ietf.org>
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Teas mailing list
> > Teas@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas
> >
> 
> --
> 
> 
> Loa Andersson                        email: loa@mail01.huawei.com
> Senior MPLS Expert                          loa@pi.nu
> Huawei Technologies (consultant)     phone: +46 739 81 21 64