[Teas] Minutes of 3272bis Design Team Meeting 2019-02-12
"Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Wed, 13 February 2019 10:29 UTC
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From: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: teas-3272bis-design-team@ietf.org
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Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2019 10:29:14 -0000
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Subject: [Teas] Minutes of 3272bis Design Team Meeting 2019-02-12
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3272bis Design Team Meeting 2019-02-12 Webex meeting 9pm GMT Attendees Acee Lindem Adrian Farrel Aijun Wang Dieter Beller Jeff Tantsura Liu Hua (Autumn) Luis Miguel Contreras Martin Horneffer Tarek Saad Xufeng Liu Pavan Beeram (WG chair) Apologies Daniele Ceccarelli Julien Meuric Lou Berger (WG chair) Purpose of meeting Level-set and work out what we're doing Charter and Expectations The meeting reviewed how the plan to revise 3272 came about and looked at the DT charter. There were no issues. The question was raised about what should be done if problems with other related documents were found. It was agreed that *this* team is focused on revising 3272. If issues with other documents are found they should be raised to the TEAS WG. Anyone (including members of this DT) is free to work on revisions of other document. It seems likely that such revisions will be dependent on the changes made to 3272. Background Reading Adrian highlighted several sources that may be useful to the DT: - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc3272/ (obviously) - https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc2702/ "Requirements for Traffic Engineering Over MPLS" - It is specific to MPLS, but pre-dates RFC 3272 by 2.5 years - https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/103/materials/slides- 103-edu-sessk-an-ietf-traffic-engineering-overview "An IETF Traffic Engineering Overview" - A tutorial at IETF-103 - It is quite high-level, but may trigger some thoughts - http://iepg.org/2015-11-01-ietf94/IEPG-RouterArchitecture-jgs.pdf "Modern Router Architecture (for protocol designers)" - A bit old (2015) but important background for thinking about how TE works - Will be updated as a tutorial at IETF-104 Agenda - What do you think of 3272? - At a high level, what should we do with 3272? - What technologies should we add to the draft? - How shall we go about the work? - When shall we meet next? What do we think of 3272? - All agreed that there had been a long gap since their previous reading and review for this work. It was felt that the basic principles had stood the test of time well, but that the technical material was dated. Adrian: Too many words Adrian: Not concrete enough Adrian: Too much history Aijun: Section 4 is legacy (Tarek agrees) Tarek: It's comprehensive. Can we abbreviate and focus? Aijun: Terms and taxonomy don't need to be redefined Pavan: May need new terms Acee: Can it stand w/o section 4? Xufeng: history is useful but might make document too long Xufeng: document is missing design-time architecture Autumn: lacks focus; what is it trying to address? Avoid addressing problems we already have solved. Dieter: Have the basic principles of TE changed? "no" Luis: More recent networks move to needing more dynamic TE Luis: Granularity has become much finer over the years What should we do with 3272? Adrian floated four high-level options: 1. Minor edits/sections to add new technologies 2. All of 1. and fix text for modern thinking and practices 3. All of 2. and major rework of all text 4. Complete re-write from scratch Some time was spent understanding the difference between 3 and 4. The difference is that 4 starts with a blank sheet of paper and may borrow text from 3272, while 3 starts with 3272 and edits as needed. All agreed to attempt to do 3. Aijun raised some additional points about how we might approach the existing text: - May be able to re-use definition and scope - TE methodology and taxonomy could be simplified - Need to add scenarios for the application of TE - Set the purpose of the document that the user can find the right TE solution for their requirements - Include inter-domain Document structure: Tarek: Do we retain the structure or make a new ToC? Adrian: Start with current ToC Pavan/Acee: For each section work out what stays and what goes Acee: Current structure stays until we change it What is the target length of the document? The meeting discussed readability and how long documents don't get read. We agreed that long documents are hard, but also that there is a lot of material to be covered. - RFC 3272 is already >70 pages - We agreed to try to target 50 pages, but understood that that could be impossible Aijun: Just give the aims of each technology and point to other documents Pavan: Talk about paradigms and tools according to applications, but point out to other docs Adrian: If we identify a missing applicability statement, someone else can write that in another doc, we don't have to include it here Pavan: Aim for a shelf-life of 10 years List some missing technologies We started a scratch list of technologies that need to be mentioned, but agreed to not attempt to make a complete list at this time: ECN AQM Multi-path TCP and QUIC PCE BGP-LS SR-TE SDN Virtual networks Telemetry DetNet Sub-IP performance measurement e2e path manipulation queue technology at the nodal level distributed protocols vs. north-south between device & controller How shall we work? Agreed that phone meetings may not work well - Time zones a real challenge - Not a good use of time for a large meeting Should try to meet up in Prague Leaves email as the default Agreed to try to use github for our work - We will work on branches and get agreement / do merges before pushing to the main copy - Acee will set up the repository - Adrian will act as the editor/authoriser - We will try to work on small sections so as to not overlap - We will try to tell everyone which sections we plan to work on Risks and Actions Risk: No one does anything: large team syndrome Addressed by "just getting on with it" Risk: We all over-write each other Addressed by github and communication Risk: Final document is too long. Addressed by concise writing and deleting unnecessary text Risk: Can we meet our dates? Target is adoptable draft at IETF-105 Addressed by having *a* draft very soon even if lots of work is still needed Action: Decide on markdown or XML Tarek likes markdown and has a sample he will share Action: Need a base document. Adrian to convert RFC to markdown or XML Action: Need github repository Acee will set up Action: Need minutes of our meeting. Adrian to send to DT and TEAS Action: Need to report in Prague. Adrian to prepare slides and send to DT nearer the time
- [Teas] Minutes of 3272bis Design Team Meeting 201… Adrian Farrel