Re: [Teas] Moving forward with draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices

Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu> Thu, 06 May 2021 07:31 UTC

Return-Path: <loa@pi.nu>
X-Original-To: teas@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: teas@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D9D43A1582 for <teas@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 May 2021 00:31:56 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -1.898
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3vuawVxJbQVV for <teas@ietfa.amsl.com>; Thu, 6 May 2021 00:31:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) (using TLSv1.1 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7284C3A15B5 for <teas@ietf.org>; Thu, 6 May 2021 00:31:50 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from [192.168.0.7] (c83-250-136-37.bredband.comhem.se [83.250.136.37]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4990C2FD2F1; Thu, 6 May 2021 09:31:47 +0200 (CEST)
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk, mohamed.boucadair@orange.com, teas@ietf.org
References: <037401d740c5$70a9cc30$51fd6490$@olddog.co.uk> <3ea262cf-e4c0-5ec0-9736-aedaf6d5d4d8@pi.nu> <009401d74195$41fd70a0$c5f851e0$@olddog.co.uk> <9933_1620212302_60927A4E_9933_344_1_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933035376DFA@OPEXCAUBMA2.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <00a001d7419e$99e5a040$cdb0e0c0$@olddog.co.uk>
From: Loa Andersson <loa@pi.nu>
Message-ID: <03cf404d-59a7-0ec5-e18f-0a98bf638c0f@pi.nu>
Date: Thu, 6 May 2021 09:31:19 +0200
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.10.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <00a001d7419e$99e5a040$cdb0e0c0$@olddog.co.uk>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed
Content-Language: en-US
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/bllJsBDdkmr5xuZaBJkKtTq7iDE>
Subject: Re: [Teas] Moving forward with draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices
X-BeenThere: teas@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Traffic Engineering Architecture and Signaling working group discussion list <teas.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/teas>, <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/teas/>
List-Post: <mailto:teas@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas>, <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 06 May 2021 07:31:56 -0000

Adrian,

That is acceptable.

As you said it is late in the document, and really not in a definitions 
section. I don't know if we can we place something in Section "2.  Terms 
and Abbreviations", but there seems to be only abbreviations.

Your wholesale example:

I think you forget about wholesale. What do you call the school that 
buys food at the shop to provide to the children? Do you call the school 
the customer, or do you refer to the cook who buys the food as the 
customer? The contract is with the school, negotiated by the cook, 
signed by the bursar.

I think "the school! is the customer, which is OK in this context. The 
cook and the school kids could be viewed as consumers", one removed from 
the system.

It strikes me that "Customer System" and "IETF Slice" are somewhat 
similar, the risk is that we talk about "customer" (even if we change 
it), and "slice" (even though if is really "IETF Slice)",

Having said that, though it is not my task to call consensus, I think we 
have a enough support to use "customer".

I rest my case.

/Loa


On 05/05/2021 13:05, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> We currently have (in section 5.1, which may be a bit late in the document)
> 
>     Customer:  A customer is the requester of an IETF Network Slice.
>        Customers may request monitoring of SLOs.  A customer may manage
>        the IETF Network Slice service directly by interfacing with the
>        IETF NSC or indirectly through an orchestrator.
> 
> We could add "A customer may be an entity such as an enterprise network or a
> network operator, an individual working at such an entity, a private
> individual contracting for a service, or an application or software
> component."
> 
> Cheers,
> Adrian
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> Sent: 05 May 2021 11:58
> To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; 'Loa Andersson' <loa@pi.nu>nu>; teas@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [Teas] Moving forward with draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-slices
> 
> Hi all,
> 
>> Anyone else got anything to say on the topic?
> 
> I would simply use "customer" and make sure the definition is generic enough
> to denote a role/entity.
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Cheers,
> Med
> 
>> -----Message d'origine-----
>> De : Teas [mailto:teas-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de Adrian Farrel
>> Envoyé : mercredi 5 mai 2021 11:59
>> À : 'Loa Andersson' <loa@pi.nu>nu>; teas@ietf.org
>> Objet : Re: [Teas] Moving forward with draft-ietf-teas-ietf-network-
>> slices
>>
>> Hi Loa,
>>
>>> On customer vs. consumer Adrian says:
>>>
>>>>    c. "Consumer" vs "customer". I have made this consistent (we
>> only need to
>>>>         use one term). I selected "Customer" because that seemed
>> best, but I
>>>>         know some people prefer "consumer". Please discuss if you
>> are not
>>>>         happy.
>>>
>>> If the choice is between customer vs. consumer, I prefer customer.
>>
>> OK. So I made an improvement, but...
>>
>>> I don't know if it is too late to bring this up.
>>
>> It's never too late to bring things up.
>>
>>> But I really don't like either, normal language has a strong
>>> indication that that that a customer is a person (a person that
>> walks
>>> inte to your
>>> shop) and consumer is also a person /that eats what I bought at
>> your shop).
>>
>> I think you forget about wholesale. What do you call the school that
>> buys food at the shop to provide to the children? Do you call the
>> school the customer, or do you refer to the cook who buys the food as
>> the customer? The contract is with the school, negotiated by the
>> cook, signed by the bursar.
>>
>>> IETF specifies "systems", including what goes into SW and HW, but
>> we
>>> don't specify normative rules for human behavior.
>>>
>>> I don't know if we can talk about Customer System?
>>
>> I'm afraid of this getting heavy for the reader. There are 73
>> instances of "customer" in the document, and "customer system" may
>> become tiresome to read.
>>
>> Anyone else got anything to say on the topic?
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Adrian
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Teas mailing list
>> Teas@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas
> 
> ____________________________________________________________________________
> _____________________________________________
> 
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations
> confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu
> ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages
> electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou
> falsifie. Merci.
> 
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged
> information that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and
> delete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been
> modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Teas mailing list
> Teas@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas
> 

-- 

Loa Andersson                        email: loa@pi.nu
Senior MPLS Expert                          loa.pi.nu@gmail.com
Bronze Dragon Consulting             phone: +46 739 81 21 64