Re: [Teas] WG adoption of draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing

Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk> Sat, 29 August 2020 21:06 UTC

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Reply-To: <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: "'Lou Berger'" <lberger@labn.net>, <teas@ietf.org>
Cc: "'TEAS WG Chairs'" <teas-chairs@ietf.org>
References: <05b401d67d8a$4ddf5890$e99e09b0$@olddog.co.uk> <96590677-a8e2-b8f3-8a03-6a8cb7e54d5f@labn.net>
In-Reply-To: <96590677-a8e2-b8f3-8a03-6a8cb7e54d5f@labn.net>
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 22:06:40 +0100
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/gmb684zAMCPWH5WXOvmgnhzBxwU>
Subject: Re: [Teas] WG adoption of draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing
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Hi Lou,

Just to be clear, text was not removed from draft-ietf-enhanced-vpn and moved to draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing.

draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing pre-dates the enhanced VPN work and only lapsed when the enhanced VPN draft was brought to TEAS from RTGWG, and some (a lot?) of the same material was brought into the enhanced VPN draft.

But I think you bring out three good points for discussion:

1. Is enhanced VPN sufficiently equivalent to network slicing to mean that discussing "realisation of VPN+ using ACTN" is a duplication of discussing "applicability of ACTN to network slicing"? My opinion is that when viewed at the service level, VPN+ and network slicing are very, very similar. However, despite having the enhanced VPN framework that described network slicing, the working group decided it wanted a network slicing design team. That team has not come back with a statement that the two concepts are very similar and has, in fact, produced its own framework for slicing that might (or might not) overlap with a current working group draft.

2. Should draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-VPN go in to details on technologies that can deliver VPN+ or should it focus on describing the function and architecture that is an enhanced VPN? The current section 5 ("Candidate Technologies") gives a very brief description of the different network and management technologies that could be used, and highlights areas for future work, but it does not dig deep into solutions. Indeed, there are a number of related solutions drafts in other working groups (LSR, BESS, SPRING,...) that set out more detailed solutions work. In that respect, the old sections 5.6.1 and 5.6.2 were overly detailed compared to the rest of section 5, and removing text seems to have been a reasonable thing to do.
 
3. How many is too many Informational documents? While the various VPN+ solutions drafts in other WGs are marked as Standards Track, it is a strangeness of where we are with ACTN that there is already and architecture and there are already YANG models (done or being worked on) that address all of the protocol needs. All that a document requires to do is show which of those models to use where and when in order to enable support for network slicing using ACTN, and that makes the document Informational. Once upon a time it was quite popular to write "cookbook" style Informational RFCs that helped people work out how to pull together bits of technology and build systems.

Depending on the discussion of these three questions we could:
a. Pull material from draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing into draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn and abandon draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing
b. Adopt draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing and publish both it and draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn
c. Abandon the work of the network slicing design team folding new text into draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn
d. Adopt and publish lots of documents
e. Any combination of the above

I think it is reasonable to ask the WG:
- Is there a substantive difference between VPN+ and network slicing?
- Do we want to describe how to use ACTN for network slicing?

I don't think it is reasonable to ask the WG:
- What documents do you want to publish to achieve all of this?
This is my belief because the WG is focused on technology not the niceties of publication. Actually, you either have to take the documents that people are working on, or you (as chairs) have to tell us what documents we should be working on (to which me might, of course, object :-)

Lots of fun?

Best,
Adrian

-----Original Message-----
From: Lou Berger <lberger@labn.net> 
Sent: 29 August 2020 19:56
To: adrian@olddog.co.uk; teas@ietf.org
Cc: 'TEAS WG Chairs' <teas-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Teas] WG adoption of draft-king-teas-applicability-actn-slicing

Hi Adrian,

On 8/28/2020 6:26 PM, Adrian Farrel wrote:
> ...
>
> Looking forward to your thoughts on this.

     As we (chairs) mentioned to you off-list, before we can talk about 
adoption of this document we still have the issue of working through the 
discussion at the last meeting.  Specifically the text that was removed 
from the WG document ( draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn) that is largely 
present in this document.  My question is: assuming the text in is 
restored from draft-ietf-teas-enhanced-vpn-05, are there one or more 
suitable existing (or candidate) WG documents that could be a home for 
the remaining valuable text that is currently in 
applicability-actn-slicing document? -- after all how many information 
documents do we really need on this topic....

I think this is a question not only for you and your coauthors, but also 
for the WG as a whole.

Cheers,

Lou

> Best,
> Adrian
>
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