[Teas] Re: [Green] Power Aware Traffic Engineering
Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net> Fri, 27 March 2026 16:52 UTC
Return-Path: <robert@raszuk.net>
X-Original-To: teas@mail2.ietf.org
Delivered-To: teas@mail2.ietf.org
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7A07D286C50 for <teas@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Mar 2026 09:52:47 -0700 (PDT)
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=ietf.org; s=ietf1; t=1774630367; bh=DQUEOD1R9qMJxvHQrFxKElXvsTo26q8mp1SNRMa9ozw=; h=References:In-Reply-To:From:Date:Subject:To:Cc; b=H3L3RXet2sA575AnBlYG+BcGoe7TB6twl4YPreJgnMvpTfoVlxgnf4eeqMHftDXLA 7Vc9IMmjHcFv8hzVAOS9oG09rM1Ejtu20IO9FW/Hx1280YgNZj/KQiHxN+zt3W+MGw oYdeO4Kq8XdPwI3SZr9ap0hHH/iA+zSBOzY3wlOw=
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at ietf.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.099
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: mail2.ietf.org (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=raszuk.net
Received: from mail2.ietf.org ([166.84.6.31]) by localhost (mail2.ietf.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3U_HaQKGLi0A for <teas@mail2.ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Mar 2026 09:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from mail-yx1-xb132.google.com (mail-yx1-xb132.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b132]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (128/128 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.ietf.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 965AFD286C3E for <teas@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Mar 2026 09:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
Received: by mail-yx1-xb132.google.com with SMTP id 956f58d0204a3-64ae2ce2fe1so2389804d50.1 for <teas@ietf.org>; Fri, 27 Mar 2026 09:52:46 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; t=1774630366; cv=none; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; b=XLpVj7IXKw8PZrdaxfRosH/YsCF73frTU26Vj7zP1hLsgoxNtEOpr6D4l2dqvOXvj0 eeyyDFKBWJvMCP6S0PHTDusU+OExktVk2aU1deJM1T1FRTuYTXsGxZeEt42Jqitl5M0I NhZtbw0BhCgYvlogG8Bp0vzJc2rBI+H6BYNZ3RzgO6EtRBMTUH/H9hPWdz5lWNtaybaL OGldYoN54+gKSZhwfxXFcro+4sbU3KKtxwlNtlUJpdgQVhj3abDv4rt82a4dPmcU3lDV pc4YfFLhuI5YRd8TwUvVUNOPfeoIucPUTqO0utdY0oULmWYqWGQzkjiuD6Hbyv3r8Ubm K6PQ==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=arc-20240605; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:dkim-signature; bh=p2HgWI4RLpyuZs7Q8qm+QuuTzY53tY8ZgTs2skzC9hc=; fh=rijeNWHang3ZNjSNGrDdPPqim9kwhhzinNhc43W+W74=; b=Dm+aTlCIDtiG2tYNqohlcgKTk6X4RcTgZM+AJPLErMxkebTew/cxI2UFDOq24byiFC Db29166pYaQPh5bRKLygryjJTFHeIy6C6cJPrrhp/ifz9jZPG63DNmtDRHZpPOuI1fd4 +P20ROBskp7fN+fupe4pm6O0NRjtiNxTSbWUFbloYyVMQn2Sdrf/A/oGYO9nKW4CRzVx vzVqGk0LiYtvPda4u9va9Vam9aOWuX/nEC0jGcMMoMsfC0uC9LjSFmOwGp+pzCkkteLH EuIRhIdR3O5uv7EMwvrz2b4GIE/UKpiqQBXyBzvkJdPIhxEUQX+c5WnkFj6vS+j6ht7f Hy7w==; darn=ietf.org
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.google.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=raszuk.net; s=google; t=1774630366; x=1775235166; darn=ietf.org; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=p2HgWI4RLpyuZs7Q8qm+QuuTzY53tY8ZgTs2skzC9hc=; b=FST4VEjaSgB7i5KUSd5Z1r5Tp1ynyzFY1CLLvJDJVyzsx5BHBZ0beItr046bN4qxab sgeTbmOAriNK1QMUnI5YeaX7T7lBgHC7UEOM5TI/9Tg7y/xjTE2gFNUgNZYzzxwSUyeK Xl26QtI6ZnLNSKTtTjgu+qVBL16WpAFqEIuulCpwDFobvjyByD2f1KzgxIDLucMtKE7X UOF16QbP71Vphhdx/T+n8JiRwbsKO0AgMOvU/hsNTVesbGTRza+9QHeT2VkbaHBeNA9+ C+wpnNsa8XO8ffwx/Xd3VeQmvfC8g1GhACAnBn7GQewuv+mKWn6C4gcJlhGwsmHj9xo8 P3Sw==
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20251104; t=1774630366; x=1775235166; h=cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from:in-reply-to:references :mime-version:x-gm-gg:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=p2HgWI4RLpyuZs7Q8qm+QuuTzY53tY8ZgTs2skzC9hc=; b=n7JcHSTKD2u5T716cGJ7w8w42KfkId/WFjlycyooplWDzJDYZVOQZPxUhNnuJzupt4 6FdVHdcXW1A5GMVMGwvwNgCLfWf3RX8GY6jrsa3edwAxVYKAfferrJkuuyGV4pcKr2sa EOfKlPQj+yA40DDeC3D0fHPFfQYcJPnGn2/OQr7KcMYrvj3//yXhMjLqKvbIW8jmC/8W lHVSwYpoXkX7ayT5ThABo+PyUHYJ4tau+Llba7svwxG6IQhNPyTQEKKa1Gd8WlvgQLmU Wh0fbzMp7Mvbves5P6xcY+S0LTTdd0EMeKkPQlgE26wKUOyHqK5j3Gto3QvzrMAwE1Ih oYWQ==
X-Forwarded-Encrypted: i=1; AJvYcCWW+a98XUfKxpJYLs4Lnk8KnFY1JMEUAqUnHWOI+k/joaiNm7bHpufAvrvL+56Y/Dy1esFH@ietf.org
X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YzJQMhVLu2dmlU8yNpUy9H3Q6a+6rnfG8rPGul/XsVQkKdPK9oy 27wOHTdBQr2bAR2AQ1Uxg1eBYobG0F+iPQPm4Be7WhR1v2WsbbUVykp+mSMcoaN42Vkt13zjB1e 2/FxqaZaEKPJz/JVpo0dEXOn/k8eqGAc6mnvvMdC51w==
X-Gm-Gg: ATEYQzwJSI8PsNbgRjQlfyKLUv9OvGzDNRHltbwoxPtqQUVMgPGUyMxTehXt4ahzuZt lcRW9z7RXcN8Mfk9dgrPkmC/CLtKYY7OiTQJlOh4/6pemUbDvXmHZ8fuIMjdPVbBrLwP3kfezEu qbiAjho9+sNh+LOcqaeAvA5bn01+A8Ese87wZUQLJUgbrIKQCulBD5tTYCHBfz9eRAb4HAsTHvS dP9pShAi3Mxifb72H7RXOW7NH+gMAmKoF9HIHfaAdq/O2N7yiA6PEbBJAeo/DiZicchbX0MLqSl qtqcsmQA
X-Received: by 2002:a05:690c:e3e9:b0:79a:dc28:fbdf with SMTP id 00721157ae682-79bde0aff8cmr31265697b3.33.1774630365999; Fri, 27 Mar 2026 09:52:45 -0700 (PDT)
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <A7538FFD-7F12-4591-A477-C9A25D118BB6@tony.li> <CAOj+MMGaGpVOOpMc+V02r6CJTxRMj8f36oWE1oZ2Ov4eSmmnSw@mail.gmail.com> <F359EEAC-6699-4282-8824-FB0687A074A7@tony.li> <CAOj+MMFjXN0bUtLDPGQWxkgVxrRdLQ5z3rHCdv7CqjQDDj4uDQ@mail.gmail.com> <7272CB6A-93CE-497B-9CCB-81E3081592E5@tony.li> <CAOj+MMFpX4xv1Cv_jQjTGwmFJadG2w5n8iomsMXFiR3yaaTQKg@mail.gmail.com> <AB42D18C-A55E-4A05-AE90-96E44E9B8CCF@tony.li> <CAOj+MMEzWDCq5tvsJrk4i51nRO4cNW0PXGBjz-wKtXqbZv4mpg@mail.gmail.com> <B72D11B9-09F8-45FF-9ED7-8C573C07F6FC@tony.li>
In-Reply-To: <B72D11B9-09F8-45FF-9ED7-8C573C07F6FC@tony.li>
From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Fri, 27 Mar 2026 17:52:33 +0100
X-Gm-Features: AQROBzBMdSqdgm_hep0sKDMoxnLC5is_G9eOztXla_evPTGwZ5kzGNP2DxLU6xM
Message-ID: <CAOj+MMEO38OPQn-EEaCAYZgZsaAEY0fERTMBvOH05j4bqNH4VQ@mail.gmail.com>
To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000092c5c9064e0454cc"
Message-ID-Hash: DBVESTESWA2JD2XUZXHSA3LNA4HJOOSH
X-Message-ID-Hash: DBVESTESWA2JD2XUZXHSA3LNA4HJOOSH
X-MailFrom: robert@raszuk.net
X-Mailman-Rule-Misses: dmarc-mitigation; no-senders; approved; emergency; loop; banned-address; member-moderation; header-match-teas.ietf.org-0; nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header
CC: draft-many-lsr-power-group@ietf.org, draft-many-teas-power-steering@ietf.org, "TEAS WG (teas@ietf.org)" <teas@ietf.org>
X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.9rc6
Precedence: list
Subject: [Teas] Re: [Green] Power Aware Traffic Engineering
List-Id: Traffic Engineering Architecture and Signaling working group discussion list <teas.ietf.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/iT8iV3vNafHPnE24QL8aksqsaXM>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/teas>
List-Help: <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Owner: <mailto:teas-owner@ietf.org>
List-Post: <mailto:teas@ietf.org>
List-Subscribe: <mailto:teas-join@ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:teas-leave@ietf.org>
Hi Tony, > How are you correlating between 900 edge nodes on which link (or links) > from among the 250 in the core they need to dry out traffic in a > bidirectional fashion in a fully distributed manner ? > > > Each node can see the power consumption of each link. Each node can see > the traffic reservations on each link. Each node is motivated to > consolidate traffic on links that consume less power or are not power save > capable. > Ok I see what you are envisioning ... But to do that in a symmetric bidirectional fashion, and to do it well among 900 edges - likely from different vendors - it is going to be very very hard. And if one edge does not play this game some of his traffic will likely be dropped when you flip the switch on the link. Instead, nicely applying make-before-break fashion. - - - What I am actually very curious about in this entire "GREEN" business is that operators pay for the long haul links (lambda or channels or virtual) flat rates per month. So if you switch optics on them it only sort of saves some Watts for the operator, but not transport company and does not result in any link cost saving. So it is like an operator buying an expensive bus and then trying to drive on two wheels during the night to save tireware on the other two irrespective of passenger comfort of those inside :) Cheers, Robert