Re: [Teas] Network Slicing design team definitions- transport slice

Kiran Makhijani <kiranm@futurewei.com> Tue, 01 September 2020 15:35 UTC

Return-Path: <kiranm@futurewei.com>
X-Original-To: teas@ietfa.amsl.com
Delivered-To: teas@ietfa.amsl.com
Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 979373A0B92 for <teas@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 08:35:09 -0700 (PDT)
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -2.089
X-Spam-Level:
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.089 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no
Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com
Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2C9KHz-7DvQE for <teas@ietfa.amsl.com>; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 08:35:08 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from NAM12-DM6-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm6nam12on2111.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.243.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02B073A0B91 for <teas@ietf.org>; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 08:35:07 -0700 (PDT)
ARC-Seal: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; s=arcselector9901; d=microsoft.com; cv=none; b=WoKkQiMdIWlgKOME3M6A4o1JEaMreSwMuramKJ6STaINKNtLU4Q+7VOtTfRX+iymll9zItf7wdeoRwkk8tQT9vfn3WEf06ZJmm13objg6mj1+diwO141omIW7kU6lrkvC6bY0H6q0bbWNWOgd6IYs8sT3RoDm/VhwHMlmgEF9y032ITDopD+VxwKzSj/vF54colyJZeL9otfAx37Op/SpYTGiKxgaaJfyhCVQzc3k9zwC7vejk5pAayl/2FBEb4IxhvKN+iJJ928O5bxrzsZn44Xw9LY/6PNR60GrlKiq5gyDKZ554C3/5pjcVm8P758OC4lJkVSgH55zGACZGKv4g==
ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=microsoft.com; s=arcselector9901; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cVeSuzCNuN+jQ6EoLcDQFaOBssTS0arqc9JE/kB1hi4=; b=foRtxzewqmZIt30rqqSJeviYFMjdrsuhh4M9zGpTxoA2eOfEj395kAasqZKHCfuEwE4bPsSd1dIVntfv3XUjRUda+SIxRNPOZXWHPj8SKmhYrDvuhL0rL/uBdBTiRgNIZiat29+5Zt5XYsDJ4RdCKLfabtKbK1l9a7l1LjdNZMSu/jvwfqjxf00Kg9lF3SsOZVqw6zAfKlOYaEnhag4RMOGKc627wOVIz/AD961xhwEiqnxLkOyP5IsuiWQmKCUzRBNnGDqyyAr9XfdS5CbmmMQJQImjsV/IJYJe0zcUHvoi6V52VquYE4M1g8wz6ylCJf1JWvSsE7d9QoqNpjcN3g==
ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; mx.microsoft.com 1; spf=pass smtp.mailfrom=futurewei.com; dmarc=pass action=none header.from=futurewei.com; dkim=pass header.d=futurewei.com; arc=none
DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=Futurewei.com; s=selector2; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version:X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck; bh=cVeSuzCNuN+jQ6EoLcDQFaOBssTS0arqc9JE/kB1hi4=; b=Mz1fpYjHxTtB0+Spyr5P87V3UwuzXahu4f0vHAWAef7oReHLA5CowF6lRWMnYnCt/XCQ+2AhOFe8Pi7k2Yg5z87uOzn+oDQWGjk6ypowK+5zpszDfPQlpfJXxX/piGJkNH8q9Jdx6MoWM0CdEiodP6IfSfkU9ZzzakGWMlqj2tY=
Received: from BYAPR13MB2437.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a02:cb::23) by BY5PR13MB3732.namprd13.prod.outlook.com (2603:10b6:a03:221::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.3348.5; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 15:35:03 +0000
Received: from BYAPR13MB2437.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4596:6de4:d7fe:66ee]) by BYAPR13MB2437.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::4596:6de4:d7fe:66ee%3]) with mapi id 15.20.3348.014; Tue, 1 Sep 2020 15:35:03 +0000
From: Kiran Makhijani <kiranm@futurewei.com>
To: "BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A" <db3546@att.com>, TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Network Slicing design team definitions- transport slice
Thread-Index: AdaAahQV6S/yA+OKSoyFMszSSgrA3QACBasg
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 15:35:03 +0000
Message-ID: <BYAPR13MB2437BFB90696DD94A13B8EF9D92E0@BYAPR13MB2437.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
References: <70af45b0bdf54f418ad83fcb65906f4a@att.com>
In-Reply-To: <70af45b0bdf54f418ad83fcb65906f4a@att.com>
Accept-Language: en-US
Content-Language: en-US
X-MS-Has-Attach:
X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
authentication-results: att.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;att.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com;
x-originating-ip: [67.188.27.49]
x-ms-publictraffictype: Email
x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5d9ea722-bd5f-4e64-c9f8-08d84e8c9866
x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR13MB3732:
x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: <BY5PR13MB3732237F219E4456EC3BE099D92E0@BY5PR13MB3732.namprd13.prod.outlook.com>
x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882;
x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1
x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0;
x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 6LR57dcy6fMPlAR0yzXQdJTSB4hdIZjBAE70xrrzzttvi5/Qk5z6+IhuiRVx1rSToaxx8lDSanZDza1F7asQ6dXzTaaxYcmMX7VV8Tf6i+a6Voq2k2f0KJaxwHaAEFfPi9Z5wFiIqh8Bt5mh21hq7Vp1yg2suwm22s2ildiZWWbVjZmAB7FTQKjciWmQPtAdLcf2pd5/T/ABtOtoSxSbG4Lex4x69/ozig5gzh8uREeVXWyAR1pleMe5p+PXe+oWaNCfKnXNRz+Tlvy01MaumkSbxikSsZnv3Mq6Z7/VfZW1VWMzxJZCrojVfoK6pv7IbUkD+T660g+jnuzQ1tfDnA==
x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:BYAPR13MB2437.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(136003)(396003)(39840400004)(366004)(346002)(376002)(316002)(86362001)(64756008)(2906002)(76116006)(8676002)(83380400001)(66556008)(66446008)(66946007)(66476007)(9686003)(71200400001)(9326002)(8936002)(55016002)(7696005)(6506007)(26005)(52536014)(33656002)(478600001)(186003)(110136005)(5660300002)(53546011); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102;
x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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
x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_BYAPR13MB2437BFB90696DD94A13B8EF9D92E0BYAPR13MB2437namp_"
MIME-Version: 1.0
X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR13MB2437.namprd13.prod.outlook.com
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5d9ea722-bd5f-4e64-c9f8-08d84e8c9866
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Sep 2020 15:35:03.1106 (UTC)
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED
X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: v8dK0w80BFIuOpdMoJhlULqGcB+/axMOhELb+CgDPaCiVZnz0gSUucdXqAGP6LAE1r/ty9Un2CZCYFyK5VbFeg==
X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR13MB3732
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/GDBOlAGuPcg7VBAhAaJsuzdJnQA>
Subject: Re: [Teas] Network Slicing design team definitions- transport slice
X-BeenThere: teas@ietf.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29
Precedence: list
List-Id: Traffic Engineering Architecture and Signaling working group discussion list <teas.ietf.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/options/teas>, <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Archive: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/teas/>
List-Post: <mailto:teas@ietf.org>
List-Help: <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/teas>, <mailto:teas-request@ietf.org?subject=subscribe>
X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 01 Sep 2020 15:35:10 -0000

Hi Deborah,
It was a deliberate effort to avoid using term network slice - which is a broader concept of "End-to-end network slice" and everything is not IETF specific. By use of term transport, we are able to  (quite precisely) scope our work in the context of IP/MPLS technologies - things IETF concern with. Another advantage is clarity from the network slice concept in 3GPP which has already been defined and described in a particular way. I will find it confusing if we had to always explain that 3gpp-network slices are different than ietf-network slices. Because they are going to be different in functionality.

Transport slices capture only the connectivity specific details for things we refer to as transport networks. So far it has aligned will with ACTN, enhance VPN and other TE related work. We will not know how to specify, mange or onboard a RAN, Wireless or a vertical-centric functionality, so there is no point in making assumptions about them in our design and terminology.

-Kiran

From: Teas <teas-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of BRUNGARD, DEBORAH A
Sent: Tuesday, September 1, 2020 7:31 AM
To: TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org>
Subject: [Teas] Network Slicing design team definitions- transport slice

Hi,
(speaking as an individual)

Picking up on Jari's comment "sometimes people want to use labels that are a bit more imprecise, but I think we should strive to avoid such labels as much as we can", can you give more background on the choice of the term "transport slice"?

I noted while you have text on the use of "transport" by 3GPP as specifying a very specific sub-network in the radio network (which excludes the handoff to the rest of the network), you referenced RFC5921 (MPLS-TP) for the term "transport".

There was a long thread of mail on ACTN, RFC8453, to move away from the term "transport" to "TE networks" which was agreed to be more specific/appropriate for TEAS. Considering IETF is already using the term "network slicing" (including TEAS RFC8453) and 3GPP use of the term, I don't understand the use of "transport" in this document.

Considering IETF already uses the term "network slice" and 3GPP uses the term (and all the industry SDOs), I am concerned we will be confusing the industry, especially as "transport" is an imprecise term for TEAS work. Is this work a subset and scoped only to the 3GPP "transport" cloud (and implied use of MPLS-TP)? Or is it planned to be generic (for all TE networks)?

Deborah
(speaking as individual)