Re: [therightkey] Transparent time -> Re: Draft charter for a Transparency Working Group

Ben Laurie <benl@google.com> Thu, 12 December 2013 16:33 UTC

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References: <CECF1BDF.2A00B%paul@marvell.com> <alpine.LSU.2.00.1312121615001.11049@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk>
Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 16:33:01 +0000
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From: Ben Laurie <benl@google.com>
To: Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at>
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Cc: Paul Lambert <paul@marvell.com>, "therightkey@ietf.org" <therightkey@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [therightkey] Transparent time -> Re: Draft charter for a Transparency Working Group
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On 12 December 2013 16:24, Tony Finch <dot@dotat.at> wrote:
> Paul Lambert <paul@marvell.com> wrote:
>
>> >> 1) Basic logs and the ability to have assurance on time and order
>> >
>> >Not sure how you do time without some notion of trust. But order is a
>> >basic property of the log, yes.
>>
>> Order places bounds on observed events in a time sequence.  Log based
>>  ¹time' would have a different model of usage  and would validate the
>> order events rather than deliver a continuos clock time. For a broader
>> usage of time in the logs you have a good point about the Œtrust¹
>> particularly for time.  Different entries would have different qualities
>> of time accuracy and veracity that could be quantified.
>
> Tangentially related (since it does not involve Merkle logs) I have a
> background project on secure time, based on getting the time from multiple
> different sources using tlsdate and requiring that a quorum of them agree.

You know we're in the process of breaking tlsdate by removing time
from the TLS handshake? Of course, you can get it from the HTTP
headers instead...

> I have written a few articles on the subject and some rough proof-of-
> concept code (not even polished enough to be called a prototype).
>
> http://fanf.livejournal.com/128861.html
> http://fanf.livejournal.com/129371.html
> http://fanf.livejournal.com/129569.html
> https://git.csx.cam.ac.uk/x/ucs/u/fanf2/temporum.git
>
> Tony.
> --
> f.anthony.n.finch  <dot@dotat.at>  http://dotat.at/
> Forties, Cromarty: East, veering southeast, 4 or 5, occasionally 6 at first.
> Rough, becoming slight or moderate. Showers, rain at first. Moderate or good,
> occasionally poor at first.