Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG model
Jiangyuanlong <jiangyuanlong@huawei.com> Thu, 17 November 2016 07:37 UTC
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From: Jiangyuanlong <jiangyuanlong@huawei.com>
To: Greg Dowd <Greg.Dowd@microsemi.com>, Rodney Cummings <rodney.cummings@ni.com>, Joseph Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
Thread-Topic: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG model
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Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2016 07:35:58 +0000
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Subject: Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG model
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Hi Greg, Thank you a lot for this alert, we will look into the texts and work closely with our WG chairs to avoid this issue. Best regards, Yuanlong > -----Original Message----- > From: TICTOC [mailto:tictoc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Greg Dowd > Sent: Saturday, November 12, 2016 10:00 AM > To: Rodney Cummings; Joseph Gwinn > Cc: tictoc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG model > > Our experiences with similar issues on the ptp-mib leads me to recommend > that you use citation as much as possible as opposed to inclusion of relevant > text. Although we had permission to use from IEEE, IETF has not been > willing to publish the mib specifically because of this single issue of > attribution and copyright concern with respect to IEEE material. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: TICTOC [mailto:tictoc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Rodney > Cummings > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 3:22 PM > To: Joseph Gwinn > Cc: tictoc@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG model > > EXTERNAL EMAIL > > > Thanks Joe, > > Helpful feedback... we'll make edits accordingly. > > Rodney > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Joseph Gwinn [mailto:joegwinn@comcast.net] > > Sent: Friday, November 11, 2016 8:17 AM > > To: Rodney Cummings <rodney.cummings@ni.com> > > Cc: tictoc@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG model > > > > Rodney, > > > > On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 20:39:42 +0000, Rodney Cummings wrote: > > > Hi Joe, > > > > > > Thanks for the comments... very helpful. > > > > > > I'd like to discuss some high level themes for your comments. > > > > > > 1. Regarding comments on the leafs in the YANG module (section 3): > > > > > > As stated in the Introduction (section 1): "The data model is based > > > on the PTP data sets as specified in [IEEE1588]." > > > > This is a bit too telegraphic, given the unspoken assumption that one > > must read 1588-20xx before attempting to read YANG-1588. More later. > > > > > > > Therefore, each leaf is based on the normative specifications of > > > clause 8 of IEEE Std 1588-2008. The name of each leaf aligns 1-1 > > > with the equivalent name of a 1588-2008 data set member. This YANG > > > module can not change the 1588-2008 specifications. That means that > > > the answer to most of your questions is: > > > > > > Refer to the specifications in IEEE Std 1588-2008. > > > > > > For example, IEEE Std 1588-2008 specifies the units of measure for > > > each leaf. > > > > > > That being said, the description of each leaf did make an attempt to > > > summarize the specifications of IEEE Std 1588-2008. That methodology > > > avoids the potential for a leaf description that is pages long. > > > Nevertheless, the summary does have the disadvantage of assuming > > > that the reader is familiar with IEEE Std 1588-2008 specifications. > > > > The unspoken assumption, now spoken. > > > > If we expect that people will (must) first read and understand 1588, > > we should say so right up front. > > > > > > > I suppose one could argue that each description should copy the text > > > from IEEE Std 1588-2008 for each leaf, regardless of the length of > > > that text. > > > > > > Is that what you are requesting? > > > > No. The basic problem is that one cannot deduce from the YANG > > document even a hint of your above explanation, which lack renders the > > text of the YANG model document under review incomprehensible to > > anyone not involved in the working groups. > > > > Now, one must write standards to be free-standing, understandable by > > people who have never heard of a standards working group, or know > > anybody who does either. > > > > So my specific suggestion is to add the above background information > > to the document somewhere early in the document, so readers have the > > full context and how it all fits together before they start reading > > the core of YANG as applied to 1588, and so know where and how to find > > the rest of the story. Given the size of 1588, calling Clause 8 out > > by name is quite helpful to the reader. > > > > > > > 2. Regarding the first comment in A.4 (starting "Where is the > > > specific make, model,"). > > > > > > Again, this model and module is based on IEEE Std 1588-2008, and we > > > explicitly avoid adding new features that are outside of that > > > standard. > > > > > > There is a feature in the future IEEE 1588 revision that provides > > > what you request, but since that 1588 revision is a > > > work-in-progress, it is the subject of a future revision of this > > > model/module (see bullet at top of page 4). The authors want to > > > avoid creating a dependency between those two projects. > > > > See prior answer. > > > > We already have a very large dependency: one must read 1588 before > > reading YANG-1588. It later develops that one must also read RFC-6020. > > > > > > > 3. Regarding the second comment in A.4 (starting "As for the > > > standard [complaint]"). > > > > > > YANG supports vendor-specific data through use of augments. There is > > > no need to provide placeholders for such data. Please refer to the > > > YANG specifications and tutorials, and see if follow up discussion > > > is needed. > > > > See prior answer. > > > > In addition, the YANG specification (RFC-6020) is 173 pages long, and > > the tutorials probably add up to a fair fraction of that, so a more > > precise reference is needed. > > > > Most readers of YANG-1588 are not going to read RFC-6020 in any detail > > until a significant need arise - it's too large and too complex for > > casual reading. Simple documents don't need tutorials. > > > > > > Speaking of context, I found IEEE 1588-2008 impossible to follow in > > any detail before I attended my first 1588 WG in Portsmouth, in > > October 2016, and there witnessed the line-by-line edit we needed to > > clarify the -2008 text for the coming -2017 version. I submit that > > there is a lesson in this. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Joe > > > > > > > Rodney > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: TICTOC [mailto:tictoc-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Joseph > > >> Gwinn > > >> Sent: Saturday, November 5, 2016 3:54 PM > > >> To: tictoc@ietf.org > > >> Subject: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG model > > >> > > >> To the TICTOC working group: > > >> > > >> Attached find my redlines against draft-ietf-tictoc-1588v2-yang-00 > > >> dated 20 October 2016. > > >> > > >> Where the arrows point should be text highlighted in yellow, but > > >> the yellow may be faint in some readers. > > >> > > >> Joe Gwinn > > >> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > TICTOC mailing list > TICTOC@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc > > _______________________________________________ > TICTOC mailing list > TICTOC@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/tictoc
- [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG mod… Joseph Gwinn
- Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG… Jiangyuanlong
- Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG… Rodney Cummings
- Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG… Joseph Gwinn
- Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG… Rodney Cummings
- Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG… Greg Dowd
- Re: [TICTOC] Comments on the proposed 1599v2 YANG… Jiangyuanlong